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Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

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Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#391

Post by thaumaturgy »

rapind wrote: post #388
patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

So this is potentially a little misleading. Is the screen shot of the installer actually a screenshot of InstallMonetizer in action, or is it just an existing / previous installer created by one of their clients (but not using InstallMonetizer). I'm not a fan regardless, but I just wanted to make sure we're getting the right picture here. I came away from your comment believing this was a screen from their (InstallMo…

The installer screenshot seems to be for the software at http://www.babylon.com/. I think Patrick's point was that InstallMonetizer is promoting some scuzzy companies.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#392

Post by JoeAltmaier »

api wrote: post #119
jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

They've 'taken off' because they are the only game in town. A real test would be to provide such a 'curated' store alongside an open economy. Then that claim would mean something.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#393

Post by mjmahone17 »

watty wrote: post #296
swies wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I needed to post this here because we solve the problem in the article. The problem is deceptive software. That we're funded by YC (or that InstallMonetizer is) is a red herring. But it sure does get some clicks! On a perfect version of HN the top comments would be about solving the problems in posts, not elaborating on them. Not to dump on HN though. This is a bug in human nature. Glad to hear you like Ninite and th…

You're acting like Ninite can be used to install and remove any crapware from any installation under the sun. In reality Ninite only works with a select handful of applications. In other words, Ninite does not solve the problem that companies like InstallMonetizer create.

Except that, for most users, ninite provides (or, their goal is to provide) the installers necessary for the main pieces of software that cause these problems in the first place.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#394

Post by swies »

ctoth wrote: post #379
swies wrote: post #16

Y Combinator also funded our solution to crapware. http://ninite.com Basically we automate multiple installers and decline toolbars just like you would. Users range from the nontechnical to NASA. We even have a huge blind user base because these installers are frequently hell to navigate with a screenreader. We make money selling a Pro version with extra features to businesses and school IT departments. It works well…

I'm one of those blind users who absolutely love Ninite. Have you ever considered managing the postinstall, too? I envisioned something which would monitor the %appdata% path where any user-specific data goes, as well as maybe the registry. Any changes get synced back to my shiny new Ninite account to be incorporated into the next install. Clearly this would take a bit of work, but since you're already imposing a sel…

Glad to hear you like it. We think about configuration stuff like this from time to time, but I'm pretty sure getting all the details right would take years. So we haven't made the leap yet.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#395

Post by 205guy »

pg wrote: post #326

We're investigating. It will take at least a couple days, because we'll need to meet with the founders in person. FWIW, the install window Patrick overlaid on top of InstallMonetizer's site in that screenshot is not actually InstallMonetizer.

But the Babylon installer is from one of IM's advertizers, so it is possibly indicative of the types of pages that IM inserts in other installers. If nothing else, the poor reputation of Babylon is indicative of the types of software that IM wants to co-install.

In the end, we don't have much information about what IM adds to installers--I suppose they don't want it too well known. We'd need to find an app that uses their installer to get a screenshot of it. Their website does give us some clues: one image shows an offer that is made to look like a license agreement, thus duping people into clicking Agree. Another clue is how they repeat that they "manage all optimization and conversion to ensure highest earnings," which I take to mean their wording and choices are designed to trick people into installing items they didn't ask for.

PS: installmonetizer.com website is down for now

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#396

Post by mylittlepony »

spindritf wrote: post #362
mylittlepony wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take this chance to recommend the following linux distributions to those non-sysadmins who are wondering which one they can try out: - Fedora 17 with Gnome. Out of the box it offers all kinds of installation options, like the one I always wanted and only found in Fedora (in my words): "Use all this but only this free space, and also encrypt it". The only downside is that out of the box it lacks some things every…

> Ubuntu 12.04 server edition. I chose server edition because it has an option for disk encryption, Ubuntu 12.10 has options for disk and home folder encryption in the regular, GUI, desktop installer.

I know thanks, but I'm avoiding Ubuntu > 12.04 until they remove the crapware they added.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#397

Post by jakub_g »

evolve2k wrote: post #167
TeMPOraL wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNet/Download.com is not reputable. It's malware distributor. The best rule of thumb is: if it looks shady, don't go there ever again. Another: every good program has an author, and this author has a valid, non-malware-installing link on his/her website.

If this is true then I imagine there is space for a trustworthy curated library which can replace CNET.

Filehippo.com and Oldapps.com give the real, original installers, not the crap-wrapped. Sadly, both sites usually are not in top 5 in Google, so you need to know of their existence. Actually I rarely use them, addiction to Google is too big (though I usually go to the author's page from the results list). But when I can't find a 'normal' installer it's awesome to have them.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#398

Post by mylittlepony »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #386
bjustin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can get used to Unity in a week or two, I recommend Ubuntu. Fedora has always worked fine for me, but Ubuntu tends to have fewer rough edges.

I use Ubuntu and I can't stand unity. It's far too easy to do `sudo apt-get install gnome-shell` and do `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable; sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install cinammon` and still enjoy the Ubuntu base (community, font patches, etc). I've bounced around between many DEs lately. Elementary is really great, especially when I was just coming from OS X, but I've been sh…

I don't know why people hate it, I love it. It gives me so much more visual space.

For example, with Unity I was able to start using Virtualbox VM's maximized instead of full screen, which is so much more comfortable. The host has the sidebar hidden (shows on hover), and the guest has it always visible (as hover wouldn't work for a guest). It really makes a great use of the visual space.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#399

Post by Suan »

I've been trying to think what is the root cause of this sad state of affairs on Windows. Attacking the scammers is not going to work since obviously their scams are profitable (and legal enough to get away with...)

Is it (the lack of) education among users? I find it curious that when compared to financial products, where improving financial education is often brought up as a solution, there's a lot less mention of education when it comes to cases like these. Sadly this kind of "don't fall for these scams" computing education is not very transferrable to more productive uses of computing.

In a free market, if users stop falling for this crap (admittedly a tall order on Windows) then the scammers will naturally go out of business.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#400

Post by notahacker »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #385
notahacker wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If desktop Linux was widely requested by the general public, PC vendors and download sites would heavily promote custom Linux builds complete with pre-installed crapware, dubious defaults and quite possibly broken upgrade paths and most consumers would never know the difference. They'd probably have their own whored-out repositories too.

Do you use desktop linux?

Ubuntu...
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