Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

istartedsomething.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 468 posts

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#111

Post by darklajid »

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #20
darklajid wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Windows freeware developers offer their software for free. Their choice. If they agree that they 'deserve some compensation' for their work, they should sell it.

Why does Gittip exist then? It's funny that some developers should be compensated for the positive externalities of their work, but only the ones you deem appropriate. Working with this company would be choosing to 'sell' your work in a more accessible way. If you don't like it, don't install the bundled software and mail the dev a dollar

Oh. Nice. "The ones I deem appropriate".

No, actually I think every developer deserves compensation. But they should ask for it, set a price. The business model with ad-/crap-/bloatware is equivalent to these annoying people (I see more and more of them on the streets) that hand you a rose/card/small ~thing~ right away, shove it in your face and ask for 2/5/10 bucks after you accepted what was quite obviously a gift. You see people fall for it all the time.

If the developer wants money for his program, he should ask for money for his program. Why would you even release 'freeware' if you don't want to give it away, no strings attached? It's your time, your project. Don't do that, if you want to earn money.

Erm - and 'working with this company would be choosing to sell your work in a more accessible way'? Really? More accessible?

If I don't like it (I don't, if that wasn't obvious enough) I remove the software, tell everyone to ignore that tool (both the software and the guy behind) and move on.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#112

Post by simias »

kybernetyk wrote: post #24

The crapware situation on Windows is horrible. I'm a Mac/Linux user but from time to time I have to power up my Windows VM. A few days ago I wanted to install the Partition Magic trial on my Win XP VM. Having left Windows around 2005 I figured that typing "Partition Magic Win XP download" in Google would be helpful. I got a handful of "reputable" download sources like CNet and the like. I went there and was bombarded…

Yeah, I share the same experience: I'm mostly a linux user who had to setup a windows machine not long ago.

Even when installing legit software from what appeared to be legit sources I had to be very careful at every step in order to avoid all the spyware/toolbars/dubious extensions bundled with the installers.

The worst offender was some crapware installer that wanted you to check the components you didn't wan't installed. I almost got tricked. Next thing I'm sure they'll ask you "Are you not sure you don't want those components not installed?" [Yes] [Ok].

I may be wrong but I believe even the official Oracle Java updater asks to install some toolbar (Ask or yahoo I think? Or maybe just set the homepage? I forgot). Good thing I don't think very highly of Oracle or I might have been disappointed.

Edit: I remembered correctly: https://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=10723...

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#113

Post by brudgers »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #90
Someone wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, some of it is due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory . One developer starts with an advert, somebody else has two, a third developer gets paid to sneak in some toolbar, the first notices "hey, I can make money that way, too", and the ball gets rolling. Now, the question is why this has not happened for Mac Software, at least not on that scale. Gruber (2004) claims it is due to zero tolerance (…

Interesting analogy, it's certainly true that there is some sense of "community" for both Linux and Mac users in that people will generally choose these platforms because they have certain beliefs about how things should work and won't tolerate things that fall outside of this. Windows on the other hand has no community and is kind of an multi-cultural wasteland where everything goes thus will tolerate more BS. Not s…

It's low market penetration which explains the difference between OSX and Linux on the one hand and Windows on the other.

The iOS and Android app stores are full of crapware. Yes, that crapware does not have all the features of it's counterpart in the Windows ecosystem. Yet, much of it provides little value or functionality and even functional applications collect vast amounts of data not necessary for that functionality.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#114

Post by dkuntz2 »

h2s wrote: post #52
jiggy2011 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, a lot of the reasons that non technical users dislike Windows seem to be the result of these. It really takes control out of the users hands. We can see the origins of this becoming a problem on Ubuntu with Canonical adding stuff like the Amazon search and seemingly having no issue with bundleware as a means of monetisation. On the other hand I'm surprised this isn't more of an issue on the Mac, since Mac (es…

I can see the future of apt-get on Ubuntu now... $ sudo apt-get install emacs After this operation, 86.3 MB of additional disk space will be used and AVG Toolbar Pro! GOLD EDITION will be installed to Chromium Do you want to continue [Y/n]?

If that happens, all someone needs to do is repackage Debian's version of aptitude for Ubuntu.

Or an older version from Ubuntu.

Really, this is a non-issue on Linux, because either 1) someone will just "fix" it an release their alternative, or 2) everyone will just stop using the offender.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#115

Post by rpm4321 »

jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

You may be right about the industry as a whole, but I'm betting you're wrong about this particular instance based on what I know about PG and YC.

When I was reading the original TC article, I was thinking that there is actually an incredible opportunity here to create a legitimate ad network that would allow desktop developers to monetize similarly to how it's done on the web - to basically become the DoubleClick of the desktop world.

Why should ad supported desktop apps be any different than ad supported mobile or web apps?

Edit: These downvotes are pretty surprising, I didn't realize I was even being controversial. Can someone explain why creating a legitimate, privacy-respecting ad platform which allows desktop developers to monetize their applications in a manner that's almost exactly the same as ad supported web and mobile apps is that awful?

I'm not even saying that's necessarily what they're up to, I can just see where there's a tremendous opportunity to try and clean up the industry, and how, based on the people involved, the author and the commenter above could very easily be jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#116

Post by Matsta »

Ok, I think one thing I don't think people fully understand is how these companies actually make their money back.

Now in the past they will either try to sell you something or get you to fill in a CPA offer. Now 2012 has hit the IM/Internet Marketing industry hard mainly because people aren't spending money as much as they used to. Like I mentioned in another comment, basically the whole CPA industry is going belly up and will continue to do so in 2013.

So how do these guys make money? Well I know the biggest craze is to make toolbars that actually control your Facebook/Twitter/Email accounts. I've already seen one made for chrome and the guy had put a whosamungus tracking code in there that had over 10k people online at the time I checked it.

The toolbar was capable of sending mass private messages, posting on your wall and inviting all your friends to events on Facebook. And the problem is, it's pretty tough for Facebook to block this since it looks legitimate as the actions are directly coming from the browser and not a shady 3rd party site.

Another tactic which is more common is to replace websites advertising code with their own. This means replacing Adsense ID's or completely changing the banner code all together. This is what Kim Dotcom will be doing when he launches his new Mega site this week.

They also alter Google results so they can either promote their own sites or sell traffic to advertisers for profit.

So to think they are 'only' tracking your IP/Mac address, think again...

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#117

Post by jahitr »

rrouse wrote: post #87
jiggy2011 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not familiar with the OSX installation procedure, but I assume that dragging the app into the folder runs some installer script? Are there perhaps restrictions on what can be done via these scripts that would require 2 distinct actions to install say a browser toolbar and application?

The cool thing about Mac applications is they are self contained. Very rarely do you see an actual installer. Uninstallation is usually just deleting the application from the Applications folder. I wish other operating systems did it that way. It's very convenient.

It isn't. Since every library the application needs is inside the bundle, you load multiple versions of the same lib on memory. Also counting the installer, the bundle and Brew or MacPorts you have a tons of way to install an app.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#118

Post by TeMPOraL »

archangel_one wrote: post #58
kybernetyk wrote: post #24

The crapware situation on Windows is horrible. I'm a Mac/Linux user but from time to time I have to power up my Windows VM. A few days ago I wanted to install the Partition Magic trial on my Win XP VM. Having left Windows around 2005 I figured that typing "Partition Magic Win XP download" in Google would be helpful. I got a handful of "reputable" download sources like CNet and the like. I went there and was bombarded…

Yes, I've run afoul of the "download button" adverts before. I'm not surprised to see them on torrent sites etc, but it amazes me that some supposedly reputable download sites would allow such things.

CNet/Download.com is not reputable. It's malware distributor.

The best rule of thumb is: if it looks shady, don't go there ever again. Another: every good program has an author, and this author has a valid, non-malware-installing link on his/her website.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#119

Post by api »

jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience.

If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#120

Post by dkuntz2 »

brudgers wrote: post #105
kybernetyk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt the installer/websites would have behaved much different if I have had used Windows 7 or 8.

Your doubt is unfounded. http://www.symantec.com/connect/forums/partition-magic-windo... Your research, poor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PartitionMagic And your characterization of the Windows ecosystem based upon your experience either ignorant, disingenuous, or blindly biased. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/apps

Than I present my own research (sometimes referred to as usage): it's the same thing in Windows 7.

Sure, that wikipedia article doesn't include installers that aren't the official one. But finding the official one can sometimes be a ridiculously daunting task.

And sure, Windows 8 has an app store now. So what? I can still install applications outside of it.

Post reply on HN