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Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

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Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#211

Post by alanctgardner2 »

darklajid wrote: post #111
alanctgardner2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Gittip exist then? It's funny that some developers should be compensated for the positive externalities of their work, but only the ones you deem appropriate. Working with this company would be choosing to 'sell' your work in a more accessible way. If you don't like it, don't install the bundled software and mail the dev a dollar

Oh. Nice. "The ones I deem appropriate". No, actually I think every developer deserves compensation. But they should ask for it, set a price. The business model with ad-/crap-/bloatware is equivalent to these annoying people (I see more and more of them on the streets) that hand you a rose/card/small ~thing~ right away, shove it in your face and ask for 2/5/10 bucks after you accepted what was quite obviously a gift.…

I think it's cognitive dissonance ( maybe I'm thinking of the wrong phenomenom ) that you 'see more and more of [these people]' every day. It makes this seem like a big bad trend, when really it's been happening forever and it just happens to support your point.

Lots of people release ad-supported free software, not because they want to turn a profit, but because they don't want a net loss. They aren't comfortable with asking for outright donations, but a small cash flow offsets the costs of serving the download and docs, and a little forum for users.

If you don't like software with ads, or software that bundles other software, that's fine. Don't use it. But I think it hurts free (as in beer) software development as a whole when you demonize any attempt to cover costs like this.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#212

Post by danielweber »

darklajid wrote: post #111
alanctgardner2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Gittip exist then? It's funny that some developers should be compensated for the positive externalities of their work, but only the ones you deem appropriate. Working with this company would be choosing to 'sell' your work in a more accessible way. If you don't like it, don't install the bundled software and mail the dev a dollar

Oh. Nice. "The ones I deem appropriate". No, actually I think every developer deserves compensation. But they should ask for it, set a price. The business model with ad-/crap-/bloatware is equivalent to these annoying people (I see more and more of them on the streets) that hand you a rose/card/small ~thing~ right away, shove it in your face and ask for 2/5/10 bucks after you accepted what was quite obviously a gift.…

I got hit by that "take this rose, I will pretend to be mute until you do" ~18 years ago in Boston and Detroit, and hadn't seen it since. I thought it faded away, but maybe it sweeps through in waves as new people move into the city.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#213

Post by ralphleon »

jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

"They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous."

This is completely prejudice! You've never met Install Monetizer, and don't know if they participate in the same activities as the companies that you're referring to.

"I believe OP is very polite: There are no good reasons to not shame them publicly."

This is childish, and I'd expect better from any contributing member of VLC.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#214

Post by philbarr »

vermontdevil wrote: post #85
jiggy2011 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good rule of thumb is to look for the smallest "Download" link on the page.

Won't be long before this rule of thumb goes out of the window. They'll probably make a one by one pixel link that links to the clean download file.

Maybe we could write a chrome/firefox plugin that highlights downloads that are from the same domain? Or perhaps hides non-domain ones? Would that clean up most of these issues?

You'd probably have to have a button to toggle this on and off.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#215

Post by kvnn »

wtracy wrote: post #187
kvnn wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." Why do you think they would have a different angle if they are a YC company?

Presumably it's hard to get into YC without a "different angle".

"Its about the team, not the idea".

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#216

Post by dhimes »

Matsta wrote: post #137
dhimes wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following- how do they get paid ?

Well basically it's almost a pyramid scheme. These companies will go and promote another crapware company and get commission off that. So basically it's like a giant loop. Or they will sell the data they have harvested such as your personal details (email/full name/date of birth/location) to a 3rd party.

Ok, so if I understand this: with the fb/twitter stuff, they are intercepting your private data and selling it. With Google adverts they are removing them and inserting their own (and their own ppc sales, I presume). And with the Google results companies pay them to alter the organic search results and place their link higher. Wow.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#217

Post by cgh »

npsimons wrote: post #186
api wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories. Nothing. In case you haven't been paying attention, Debian repositories were "app stores" before there were app stores. The software goes through extensive vetting and rigorous testing; no, I'm not saying every line of code is inspected, but to claim that a Debian maintainer wou…

You can install whatever 3rd party software you want on a Mac, side by side with software from the App Store. Note that this article is about PCs, not mobile. You seem to be conflating the two.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#218

Post by shadowmint »

rpm4321 wrote: post #115
jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

You may be right about the industry as a whole, but I'm betting you're wrong about this particular instance based on what I know about PG and YC. When I was reading the original TC article, I was thinking that there is actually an incredible opportunity here to create a legitimate ad network that would allow desktop developers to monetize similarly to how it's done on the web - to basically become the DoubleClick of…

Because your browser is incredibly carefully sandboxed, and your desktop is not.

Worse yet, even the low level of sandboxing that desktops posses are almost always defeated by installers: "This installer requires administrator privileges to run"

... aka. yes, you will take our spyware-crapware-rubbish, and you'll love it, or you wont use our app. Capish?

You don't get that with websites. That's why it's ok.

(Incidentally, this is the same reason why its not ok on mobile platforms, where your options of permission are to read your contacts and make phone calls and 'services that cost money' or no, you can't play this game of Cat Pong your friends are talking about...)

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#219

Post by jiggy2011 »

philbarr wrote: post #214
vermontdevil wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't be long before this rule of thumb goes out of the window. They'll probably make a one by one pixel link that links to the clean download file.

Maybe we could write a chrome/firefox plugin that highlights downloads that are from the same domain? Or perhaps hides non-domain ones? Would that clean up most of these issues? You'd probably have to have a button to toggle this on and off.

Most of these freeware download sites tend to use mirror sites for the actual downloads.

The download link for the actual product will often really be a redirect to a page with a "your download will start in 5 seconds" and then some JS triggers the actual download.

Even the legit download will usually offer you toolbars and crap anyway.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#220

Post by thoughtcriminal »

patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

Babylon is the worst of the worst malware. I've never battled tooth and nail to get such supervirus crapware off my computer in my life.

Seriously, stay away!

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