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Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

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Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#181

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

api wrote: post #123
rpm4321 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right about the industry as a whole, but I'm betting you're wrong about this particular instance based on what I know about PG and YC. When I was reading the original TC article, I was thinking that there is actually an incredible opportunity here to create a legitimate ad network that would allow desktop developers to monetize similarly to how it's done on the web - to basically become the DoubleClick of…

Desktop apps with built-in ads are okay. I've used a few here and there. I've also seen shareware model software that has ads that can be turned off by registering. That's fine too. In this case the ads are part of the application . They live within it. Uninstall the app, and the ads are gone. Such ads also tend not to invade users' privacy outside the app. They might send stuff about what you do in the app, but if y…

I don't disagree with your overall point but "toolbar" is not in the same class as "HIV". A little perspective please.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#182

Post by S4M »

jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

After reading some comments and noticing that you're one of the VLC lead developers (awesome software, by the way!), I am wondering if you have a way to make VLC notify its users at the first launch (after install) and tell them something like

"You have installed VLC, it should have come without any additional software such as tool bars or file compressors. If this was not your case, you probably installed it from a third party that arbitrarily and without our consent added external programs. We recommend you to install VLC from videolan.org, etc."

That way, casual users will at least be aware of the external installs problem.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#183

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

kvnn wrote: post #177
patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

"They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." Why do you think they would have a different angle if they are a YC company?

I don't think there's an implication that a YC company would be more moral, just that they'd be doing something a little more interesting or subtle than the same old crap sleaze balls have been pulling for years now.

It's like finding that someone has got through the YC selection process based on a business model which involves putting "sex, horny, porn" in the title of each page on their website.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#184

Post by pjmlp »

rrouse wrote: post #87
jiggy2011 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not familiar with the OSX installation procedure, but I assume that dragging the app into the folder runs some installer script? Are there perhaps restrictions on what can be done via these scripts that would require 2 distinct actions to install say a browser toolbar and application?

The cool thing about Mac applications is they are self contained. Very rarely do you see an actual installer. Uninstallation is usually just deleting the application from the Applications folder. I wish other operating systems did it that way. It's very convenient.

MS-DOS did it, but on those days things were a lot simpler.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#185

Post by swies »

kvnn wrote: post #177
patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

"They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." Why do you think they would have a different angle if they are a YC company?

http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#186

Post by npsimons »

api wrote: post #119
jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

Nothing. In case you haven't been paying attention, Debian repositories were "app stores" before there were app stores. The software goes through extensive vetting and rigorous testing; no, I'm not saying every line of code is inspected, but to claim that a Debian maintainer would just blithely let crapware in is ignorant.

As for the walled gardens of Google and Apple, people are objecting to precisely that: the locked in, tinker-hostile way that the platform (not the app store) is managed. It's great that Google and Apple have finally seen the light and started curating software and making it easy to install, like it's been in Debian for nearly two decades. What's not great is telling people what they are and are not allowed to do with their property by anti-competitively denying the right the to install third party apps.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#187

Post by wtracy »

kvnn wrote: post #177
patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

"They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." Why do you think they would have a different angle if they are a YC company?

Presumably it's hard to get into YC without a "different angle".

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#188

Post by aegiso »

dudurocha wrote: post #176
patio11 wrote: post #152

So when earlier it was mentioned, I assumed "They have to have a different angle on this; they're a YC company." And seeing a strong thread title and no evidence for it other than "The industry they're in is ridiculously seedy", I thought maybe HN was in rush to judgement mode. So I thought I'd try, you know, installing something. Make your own call: http://images1.bingocardcreator.com/blog-images/hn/its-not-a...

It makes me a little sad when I remember what pg aways say to startups. Make something users love. Not this time, though...

The users aren't the people installing the software. The users are the clowns writing the software that is so horrible it needs to pay for installs.

And those users will love this new attack vector backed by some of the most respected folk in Silicon Valley.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#189

Post by danielweber »

api wrote: post #119
jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

App stores are just are likely to turn to crap. I've had lots of friends complain that they bought an app, and then an "upgrade" shoved advertisements in.

It's not third-party ads, it's first-party ads, which is slightly better.

Like OP, I have a lot of sympathy for software developers trying to sell in a world full of people who don't think they should pay any dollars for software. They are still gonna pay, just in terms of their privacy and computer security.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#190

Post by MBCook »

danielweber wrote: post #189
api wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

App stores are just are likely to turn to crap. I've had lots of friends complain that they bought an app, and then an "upgrade" shoved advertisements in. It's not third-party ads, it's first-party ads, which is slightly better. Like OP, I have a lot of sympathy for software developers trying to sell in a world full of people who don't think they should pay any dollars for software. They are still gonna pay, just in…

I've had that happen, but the ads only show up in that one app. They can't install ads across my whole iPhone like most adware does.
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