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Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

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Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#131

Post by klrr »

api wrote: post #119
jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

A lot of people these days are bashing Apple and Google for creating walled gardens with their app stores, but this is really the primary reason such walled gardens have taken off. They offer a mostly crapware-free experience. If Linux on the desktop were to get popular, I'd hate to imagine what might happen to the open source Fedora and Debian/Ubuntu repositories.

I'm not sure about Fedora but Debian has a very strict policy for the packages in their repos.

http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#132

Post by lmm »

dkuntz2 wrote: post #114
h2s wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see the future of apt-get on Ubuntu now... $ sudo apt-get install emacs After this operation, 86.3 MB of additional disk space will be used and AVG Toolbar Pro! GOLD EDITION will be installed to Chromium Do you want to continue [Y/n]?

If that happens, all someone needs to do is repackage Debian's version of aptitude for Ubuntu. Or an older version from Ubuntu. Really, this is a non-issue on Linux, because either 1) someone will just "fix" it an release their alternative, or 2) everyone will just stop using the offender.

You could've said the same thing about e.g. download.com. Turns out there's such a thing as momentum.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#133

Post by Aardwolf »

This is the reason why I don't understand that people say that Linux is for "technical" users while Windows is for regular consumers.

In Linux it's easier to install something that in Windows.

E.g. to install a CD to MP3 rip program, in Archlinux all you do is:

  # Search for some mp3 ripper program
  pacman -Ss mp3 | grep rip
  # Install one of them from the list that looked ok from the description
  pacman -S ripperx
In Windows, the steps are:

  Search the internet for rip mp3
  Go through hundreds of spammy results
  Try to identify one that isn't crapware
  Download its installer
  Run its installer
  Be careful at every page of the installer that it isn't installing crap
How can they say Linux is harder than Windows? I don't get it.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#134

Post by rmk2 »

h2s wrote: post #52
jiggy2011 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, a lot of the reasons that non technical users dislike Windows seem to be the result of these. It really takes control out of the users hands. We can see the origins of this becoming a problem on Ubuntu with Canonical adding stuff like the Amazon search and seemingly having no issue with bundleware as a means of monetisation. On the other hand I'm surprised this isn't more of an issue on the Mac, since Mac (es…

I can see the future of apt-get on Ubuntu now... $ sudo apt-get install emacs After this operation, 86.3 MB of additional disk space will be used and AVG Toolbar Pro! GOLD EDITION will be installed to Chromium Do you want to continue [Y/n]?

> Do you want to continue [Y/n]

"Yes" & "No, I do not not want to install this"?

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#135

Post by lmm »

rrouse wrote: post #87
jiggy2011 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not familiar with the OSX installation procedure, but I assume that dragging the app into the folder runs some installer script? Are there perhaps restrictions on what can be done via these scripts that would require 2 distinct actions to install say a browser toolbar and application?

The cool thing about Mac applications is they are self contained. Very rarely do you see an actual installer. Uninstallation is usually just deleting the application from the Applications folder. I wish other operating systems did it that way. It's very convenient.

The problem is it leads apps to include their own copies of libraries - which then get out of date and have bugs. I remember when a vulnerability was found in zlib and just to update all of apple's first-party programs with the fix required something like 2.6gb of updates. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were still some more obscure third party mac programs shipping the old, vulnerable version.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#136

Post by rsynnott »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #34
kybernetyk wrote: post #24

The crapware situation on Windows is horrible. I'm a Mac/Linux user but from time to time I have to power up my Windows VM. A few days ago I wanted to install the Partition Magic trial on my Win XP VM. Having left Windows around 2005 I figured that typing "Partition Magic Win XP download" in Google would be helpful. I got a handful of "reputable" download sources like CNet and the like. I went there and was bombarded…

Agreed, a lot of the reasons that non technical users dislike Windows seem to be the result of these. It really takes control out of the users hands. We can see the origins of this becoming a problem on Ubuntu with Canonical adding stuff like the Amazon search and seemingly having no issue with bundleware as a means of monetisation. On the other hand I'm surprised this isn't more of an issue on the Mac, since Mac (es…

> Is there something about OS X that makes bundleware more difficult to develop or is it just easier to monetise an OS X app without bundleware?

MacOS apps very rarely have an installer, so there's little opportunity to install this sort of thing.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#137

Post by Matsta »

dhimes wrote: post #128
Matsta wrote: post #116

Ok, I think one thing I don't think people fully understand is how these companies actually make their money back. Now in the past they will either try to sell you something or get you to fill in a CPA offer. Now 2012 has hit the IM/Internet Marketing industry hard mainly because people aren't spending money as much as they used to. Like I mentioned in another comment, basically the whole CPA industry is going belly…

I'm not following- how do they get paid ?

Well basically it's almost a pyramid scheme. These companies will go and promote another crapware company and get commission off that. So basically it's like a giant loop.

Or they will sell the data they have harvested such as your personal details (email/full name/date of birth/location) to a 3rd party.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#138

Post by etix »

jbk wrote: post #49

I can speak quite a bit about this "industry": We (VLC) receive 1 of those offers per day. They are liars, shady business, IP violators and are downright dangerous. They have all those great offers for you, but they refuse to give any details as soon as you ask any question. More than half of them are "the biggest in the world" (sic). They lie about download numbers, about download size, about number of software actu…

And this is not new, I've written an article on the exact same topic a year and a half ago about VLC:

http://blog.l0cal.com/2011/07/07/these-companies-that-mislea...

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#139

Post by ameen »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #88
brk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was saying it was kind of a humorous contrast with YC essentially funding companies that compete in a way. The nerdy conclusion of this discussion would lead to a battle of the two platforms, one trying to install spam-ware and the other trying to prevent it...

and both making MILLIONS ! It's like some shadowy movie villian / arms dealer guy with a conspiracy to sell weapons to both sides!

Or like the Government of United States, which supplies arms to both the Government and the Rebels.

Re: Y Combinator is funding the future of spam in Windows

#140

Post by api »

mylittlepony wrote: post #55
kybernetyk wrote: post #24

The crapware situation on Windows is horrible. I'm a Mac/Linux user but from time to time I have to power up my Windows VM. A few days ago I wanted to install the Partition Magic trial on my Win XP VM. Having left Windows around 2005 I figured that typing "Partition Magic Win XP download" in Google would be helpful. I got a handful of "reputable" download sources like CNet and the like. I went there and was bombarded…

I'll take this chance to recommend the following linux distributions to those non-sysadmins who are wondering which one they can try out: - Fedora 17 with Gnome. Out of the box it offers all kinds of installation options, like the one I always wanted and only found in Fedora (in my words): "Use all this but only this free space, and also encrypt it". The only downside is that out of the box it lacks some things every…

Been using Fedora 17 for a while at work. Used to hate RPM-based distros, but I took another look about a year ago. It's actually pretty nice.

I also don't hate Gnome 3. It's a bit immature, but it's pretty and fairly easy to use and stable.

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