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Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

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Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#451
post #60

Here is the HN thread from back then. Some of it makes for pretty uncomfortable reading right now. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

Sometimes it takes a shock for people to reconsider their position, especially if what they're really doing is defending their own lack of action. Let's not run to judge the people who posted in that thread many months ago. Personally, I gave up on participating in any kind of activism about 10 years ago, partly because I didn't feel we were getting anywhere and the next generation didn't seem to care. I feel pretty…

My first thought on hearing about his death was thinking of the picture of the boycotters singing together in the Montgomery jail. We don't have songs of solidarity any more. Instead it's months of indictments and pre-trial proceedings and motions and legal fees, all over things we didn't even see happen in the first place, in a snarky community that will tear people down at least 50% of the time. I can't really think of a less effective resistance strategy.

It's also mostly fueled by indifference and self-interest, not activism. Most file sharers just don't care that they are breaking the law; they want to do what they want to do. If these laws are to ever change we're going to need to start downloading and sharing on the Capital Steps, or get arrested for printing free books for poor kids. We are going to need to be prepared to go to jail ahead of time, before they decide to come after us. That way people like Aaron who don't have the support network and preparation aren't the only ones facing this.

Unfortunately, in my experience the existing activist networks are not the place to start. The anarchists just want to relive the 70's, labor is watching their power dwindle and is focused myopically on the little that remains, poverty campaigners are burned out from fighting years of losing battles and the Occupy, anti-globalization and professional activists seem perfectly happy to march just to be doing anything at all. Many people can agree on the problems, but few people can agree on the solutions (much less small, concrete steps to get there) and so they don't accomplish anything. In intellectual "property" rights laws, however, I think we have a well-defined problem where direct action could be effective.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519

@MrScruff Are you defending his comments? Yes the Prosecution was wrong, but does it negate what Ed said. If you are defending his comments. What a sad sad action.

If you are defending his comments. What a sad sad action.

You're going to have to do a bit better than that if we're going to have a discussion...

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"> Feminism benefits men as well. It depends on how it's applied, doesn't it?" Destroying systems of entrenched privilege may not be viewed as beneficial by all men that cling to these systems, no. But equality does provide for a healthier system, if one appreciates women healthy in mind and body. Harping on straw "Feminists" won't improve our situation.

"And this is an example. It states that gender equality from the female perspective is automatically equivalent to "Destroying systems of entrenched privilege", which is a courtesy not given to the male perspective on the same concepts." As I stated, it does by lessening strict gender roles.

> As I stated, it does by lessening strict gender roles.

But that's also true of looking at gender equality from the male perspective, yet whenever someone attempts that the old MRA strawman stereotypes get thrown around.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Techcrunch publish an article singling out a single negative post (among many more) on HN from 120 days ago" Looking at the post, it would seem that edw's opinion was the most popular in the hivemind (judging by the upvotes on his comment), so it's fair to single out that post which summarized the thoughts of the many people upvoting. Unless people just arbitrarily upvoted him, which would have other ramifications .…

It's not fair to single out one individual, particularly when the not so subtle (and completely speculative) inference is that the discussion led to Swartz's suicide.

Ed represents the general shittiness of HN. Shitty in the sense of being selfish assholes.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I am more taken aback by the overall tone implying that Aaron had some golden-ticket-chance-of-a-lifetime...In hindsight, I don't think anyone would have wanted to shoulder his burdens. I don't think anyone would still say he had a golden ticket. Probably the great…

It's connotation was that Aaron was acting like a woman. The intended message was that he should shoulder sole responsibility for the costs, unlike (apparently) a woman. A) that's sexist and B) counter-productive. Collaboration and mutual support gets us further than we can get on our own: demonizing those traits as "feminine" just leads to lonely alienation. Yet Another Way Patriarchy Hurts Men(tm)

I believe the phrase "man up" has more to do with the differences between boys and men vs women and men. It's synonymous with grow up.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#457
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

To all those replying to edw519 - please stop witch-hunting. First prosecutor, then MIT, then.. edw519? Its possible any of these parties made a mistake.. now that they can look back and reflect. But, even after reflection its very possible that each party made the best decision they could with the information at hand. Maybe I'm lucky, but I find 99%+ of people I meet in this world are well intentioned, and if I inve…

Now your defending the Prosecutor that a Harvard Law Professor called out as a bully? The Prosecutor knew that it would destroy his life but she didn't care. After all stealing publicly funded academic papers is a big crime.

edw519 deserves to be witch hunted at least on HN. I find it appalling his insensitive comment is at the top still.

I find your logic extending to all crimes. You should write a essay defending James Holmes while you are at at.

Sorry but your a piece of sh*t

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tptacek, I always know exactly which threads you will post your combative, confrontational, annoying posts before I click on them. You are the drama queen of hackernews.

While I couldn't agree more, I doubt he gives a damn what other people think and it's much easier to just ignore him. Don't feed the troll, right?

Normally yes but I am just sick of his vitriol. I wanted to call him out for a long time. Sadly it is probably my highest rated comment.

He at least had the decency to delete his posts in the thread.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#459
Allow me to make a confession:

I didn't think much of Aaron Swartz while he was alive. Most of his writings seemed self-absorbed to me. I had difficulty understanding how someone with his politics could be a mac fanboy. People I think highly of (Chris Webber, John Sullivan) thought highly of him so I was induced to give him some benefit of the doubt on those grounds, but I certainly couldn't understand what they saw in him.

I assumed he was a millionaire with enormous resources that he was using to thumb his nose at powerful people. I felt that if I had the resources (I assumed that) Aaron had, I would use them differently.

I saw the thread about Aaron's campaign fund and I didn't post, but I did read it.

And I read Edward's comment and I agreed with it.

I knew very little about Aaron's case. But the way that fund was being put together seemed underhanded to me, like he wanted to take people's money without really acknowledging it. Is he a millionaire or not? I wondered, and if not, why doesn't he come out with it and explain what happened?

Of course now I know of the existence, from Lawence Lessig, of the bizarre Kafkaesque muzzle the judge had on Aaron, but how could anyone who wasn't very closely familiar with Aaron and his case know about that?

There's a sort of sick serendipity in this for me. Just last week I read Kafka's The Trial. The word "Kafkaesque" keeps getting thrown around but it's stunning---stupefying to me, how many parallels there are between that book and Aaron's case.

In Kafka, after the protagonist is arrested he's immediately released. The police even escort him to work and tell him to go about his life. At first he thinks that's an great thing that he wasn't hauled off in custody, but as the trial grinds on he comes to realize that being forced to live every day as the facsimile of a free man being required to do what free men are inclined to do while carrying the additional burden of dealing with his trial, is itself torture.

If anyone remembers the bruhaha around Dmitry Sklyarov, or before that DVD John or Kevin Mitnick knows that this community rallies around men sitting in jail while the authorities try to come up with a crime to charge them with. There's no doubt in my mind that if the prosecution had hauled Aaron off to jail "for downloading some PDFs" the reaction would have been swift and boisterous.

I've learned a great deal about this country's "justice" system over the past two days, and mostly I've learned about the special sort of hell it put Aaron in, and I've come to realize that I was complicit in its work through my ignorance and indifference.

And all I can say about that is I feel a little bit sick. And that it won't ever happen again.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#460
post #136

Here is the HN thread from back then. Some of it makes for pretty uncomfortable reading right now. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

I want to change the focus here from all the negativity that was existent in HN to some positive stuff -- andrewljohnson's defense of Aaron, which now shows his incredible insight. 1) I don't think Aaron made more than six figures from Reddit. Soon after acquisition, he went on walkabout, and then he got canned. He probably got some money, but did not vest most of his share. So, don't worry - he's poor enough for you…

> I disagree with anyone on this forum who says that Aaron didn't know the potential consequences of his actions, and therefore should not be punished.

What's terrifying to me is that I could have ended up doing the same thing. You're on a fast network, you have a bunch of PDFs you want to crawl, you're particularly handy with python... why not? It's in the same ballpark as doing a site-rip.

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