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Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

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Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#401
post #260
post #104

[deleted]

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

Oh, he's suddenly so thoughtful and considerate.

I think edw519 is a common example of a celebrity case who feels obliged to condescend his important opinion on any mildly prominent case, in a know-it-all, bold manner. And there's no lack of readily available supporters willing to nod and upvote their idol.

I have respect for his technical background, but with fame comes a greater responsibility, which not many carry out well.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#402
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519

edw519 is allowed to have an opinion, and his opinion does not, at least to me, seem unreasonable.

Not everyone is going to agree with your civil disobedience actions, or you asking for help with the consequences. That doesn't make them bad people, or wrong people, for saying they don't like your approach, think you should accept consequences, or whatever else. For example, MLK didn't hate the clergymen that disagreed with his direct action approach. He essentially told them to man up, join the movement, and accept the consequences of sitting in jail sometimes as a result. Not that edw519 is quite as eloquent, but none of edw519's comments are patronizing, they were his description of the situation as he saw it, and the outcome he thought should occur.

Characterizing this as "spitting in the face of someone asking for help" is pure hyperbole.

If everyone agreed on a course of action and outcome, you wouldn't actually need a movement. That a person died tragicallly does not mean that everyone who did not see eye to eye with that person is an egotistical patronizing dickhead who spit in their face because they did not want to help the movement. It just means they did not see eye to eye.

Acting as if it is more than that is, as others have said, a circular witchhunt. Sometimes tragic events are just that: Tragic events.

The whole "news" story is ridiculous. One can be sad and feel it a tragedy that a young man committed suicide, even if you disagree with the approach that person took.

Lastly, I'll point out that if edw519 were to meet an untimely demise, your post is exactly of the same tone and impression as his.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519

Either you are new here, in which case you don't know Ed well enough to be leaving comments like this one, or you are a troll, or you are a regular member hiding behind a newly-created anonymous account. Either way, stop it.

well this is a newly created account, but I've been here for four years. I remember when people were missing comments by nicb, when patio11 wasn't a lead karma recipient. Ed fucked up man. And as I've said it now in three other comments, this guy sold a freaking book of his comments from this exact site. I've been an asshole. I've said things I really, really shouldn't have. But the people calling for Ed to publicly apologize have the least of it. And for the record, I'm not a regular contributor hiding behind a new account. I've commented less than a dozen times before the last few days, from two other accounts that I promptly forgot. Just because we don't have high karma doesn't mean we don't have relevant opinions and arguing the opposite sounds pretty shameful.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about saying your sorry. Someone was asking for help and mr. edw519, just spit in his face with such absurd comments. Lets take a step back. Would you spit in the face of someone asking for help. What type of patronizing comments did edw519 make? He still hasn't said sorry and that tells me all I need to know about him and his ego. Shame on the members that supported edw519

@MrScruff Are you defending his comments? Yes the Prosecution was wrong, but does it negate what Ed said. If you are defending his comments. What a sad sad action.

There is nothing wrong with defending his comments. Who made you judge, jury, and executioner? Anonymity has made you bold.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#405
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Push anyone far enough and they'll take their own life. This is ridiculous hindsight bias, people have been charged with far more than Aaron and didn't kill themselves. Aaron had been depressed for a long time leading up to all of this, yet everyone seems to argue that the prosecution is what did it and he would have been completely fine otherwise. They have nothing to base that off of, but that's still the case tha…

It is more a statement of probabilities, do I know thats what pushed him of the edge of course not, is likely to have played a significant role, I think yes. It does not have to be all or nothing to change my opinion and my future actions.

You can call outside speculation "a statement of probabilities" in an attempt to make it seem legitimate, but that doesn't make you correct.

Dressing up speculation doesn't change what it is.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#406
post #343
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a comment below you state NOBODY KNEW THESE DETAILS AT THE TIME That is exactly why judgement should have been deferred. In the face of uncertainty, given the situation, withholding comment or querying neutrally would have been optimal. That is clear with foresight, not just obvious from hindsight. I did not see that thread the first time but it is the tone and not the words that would be so damaging. Man up . Ver…

YOU STILL DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS. There was no suicide note. There was no reason given. The closest thing we have is a suggestion from his family, which caused everyone to instantly jump on one of three different bandwagons getting as many people fired and as many laws changed as possible. We have no idea of gauging whether or not that suggestion is correct, so we all read in to things we THINK suggest the reasons fo…

> YOU STILL DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS.

No we do not, but everyone still needs to decided if and how they will act differently going forward with this new data point regardless of what we do not know.

Jumping to conclusions is bad not changing at all is also bad.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And this is why I hate the term "patriarchy" in this context: It implies men always get the best of it, there are no downsides for males, and therefore we should be dismissive of male problems." Feminism benefits men as well. Patriarchy DOES exist to the detriment to men, your anger is misapplied.

> Feminism benefits men as well. It depends on how it's applied, doesn't it? > Patriarchy DOES exist to the detriment to men Thank you for restating my point. > your anger is misapplied. How? I don't understand how my anger is misapplied here.

"> Feminism benefits men as well. It depends on how it's applied, doesn't it?"

Destroying systems of entrenched privilege may not be viewed as beneficial by all men that cling to these systems, no. But equality does provide for a healthier system, if one appreciates women healthy in mind and body.

Harping on straw "Feminists" won't improve our situation.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more cynical observation is that users with high "karma" point totals earn this by parroting the majority opinion or otherwise treating comment threads as a game.

That's not an observation, it's a conjecture, and one that is fairly baseless. many things operate according to a power law. If karma is like that, a small number of users will end up with a shitload of karma points even if they aren't attempting to game the system. There are many factors that could contribute to a power law for karma distribution. One conjecture is that other users tend to "trust" high-karma users a…

I don't know; consciously recognizing this tendency in myself is one of the reasons I deleted my reddit account and seriously scaled back my contribution here. I observed behaviour in myself that I found distasteful, but it wasn't before that behaviour had become entrenched and I had become a top-100 poster on HN (by overall karma) that I noticed it. I can easily postulate a reality wherein others, as I did, unconsciously adopt hivemind opinions so as to maximize the social validation of karma without realizing that they're doing so or intentionally gaming the system in that way.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is raging hindsight bias all over the place. "Next time you feel like making a 'meh' post, just say nothing at all?" Please.

Well, hopefully the next time that you feel like making a 'meh' comment, you will at least consider whether you're making a positive contribution. Ed made a comment that was pretty harsh, although true given the information available at the time, and is now being singled out by Techcrunch and the rest of the HN community. Of course, in fine HN tradition everybody is now jumping on Ed in exactly the same way that he j…

It was 80 IQ points and Alan Kay said it.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#410
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills." ~Ed Sounds like Ed was a bit harsh on someone who was going through allot of trouble. The comment was excessively cruel. Not to mention it was the top comment, which must of added large dosage of salt on an already wounded soul. So he(Ed) rightfully deserves any criticism thrown at him. It's such a tool bag comment, Ed should apologize…

And you sound like a drama queen. The severity was not conveyed. According to HN users in this thread, it couldn't be for whatever reasons. We didn't know the extent of the trouble. Sure, he was rude, and I don't like it when people are rude, but some people in this thread are making it sound like he pulled the fucking trigger. Give it a rest.

Give it a rest yourself. He publicly heaped scorn on Aaron collecting money to defend himself. Not really a stretch to say he contributed to someones isolation. And saying "he pulled the fucking trigger" is grotesque.
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