Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 530 posts

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#331

Post by nandemo »

DanBC2 wrote: post #193
grandalf wrote: post #110

This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. In spite of the way many interest groups are trying to make Aaron's suicide into a symbol, the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else . Unless we have reason to believe otherwise, most of us assume that those whose actions/views we discuss on HN are of normal (average) mental health. So while Aaron's death is jarring, it's th…

> the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else. This is simplistic and wrong. Mental illness is a factor in some attempted or completed suicides. But is mental ill health the only factor? No. There are many things that contribute to someone attempting suicide. Significant factors include debt, relationship breakdown, recent release from a MH hospital, previous attempts at suicide,…

grandalf's comment is inaccurate, but it's also a sort of understatement to say that mental illness "is a factor in some attempted suicides or completed suicides". It's by far the biggest factor.

> More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have [depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders)]

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-u...

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#332

Post by illuminate »

derleth wrote: post #285
graue wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. This is a perfect example of how restrictive gender norms (or, what some might call "patriarchy") can harm men as well as women, and are something we all need to care about.

> This is a perfect example of how restrictive gender norms (or, what some might call "patriarchy") can harm men as well as women And this is why I hate the term "patriarchy" in this context: It implies men always get the best of it, there are no downsides for males, and therefore we should be dismissive of male problems. I know this isn't what academic feminists think. It is, however, what a disturbing number of peo…

"And this is why I hate the term "patriarchy" in this context: It implies men always get the best of it, there are no downsides for males, and therefore we should be dismissive of male problems."

Feminism benefits men as well. Patriarchy DOES exist to the detriment to men, your anger is misapplied.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#333

Post by [deleted] »

anthonyb wrote: post #316
rayiner wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is raging hindsight bias all over the place. "Next time you feel like making a 'meh' post, just say nothing at all?" Please.

Well, hopefully the next time that you feel like making a 'meh' comment, you will at least consider whether you're making a positive contribution. Ed made a comment that was pretty harsh, although true given the information available at the time, and is now being singled out by Techcrunch and the rest of the HN community. Of course, in fine HN tradition everybody is now jumping on Ed in exactly the same way that he j…

[deleted]

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#334

Post by cstejerean »

RegEx wrote: post #322
cstejerean wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't help that the people trying to shed light on the severity of the situation were met with comments like http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529716

That comment was in reply to > If the feds get their way you'll know exactly where to find him for the next 35 years. I'm asking if people actually knew facts, not some tin-foil hat speculation (even if the tin-foil hat was right on the money).

tptacek didn't appear to question Aaron facing 35 years in jail, he was simply stating that actually "spending" that time in jail is unlikely.

See for example another comment from him at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529809

Edit:

There was nothing tinfoil about it. The indictment was publicly available, and a cursory search of news.google.com also brings up articles like this one

http://techland.time.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-aaron-...

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#335

Post by Permit »

pygy_ wrote: post #253
encoderer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I up-voted his original comment I would do so again. Aaron knew what he was doing. There are many charities more deserving than his legal defense fund -- that isn't changed just because he was apparently mentally ill enough to take his own life. There should be a high burden you have to overcome to successfully find crowd-funding for anything including a legal defense.

Push anyone far enough and they'll take their own life. The threshold varies from one person to the next, but blaming his suicide on mental illness is IMO disingenuous. Which causes deserve funding is a matter of personal choice.

>Push anyone far enough and they'll take their own life.

This is ridiculous hindsight bias, people have been charged with far more than Aaron and didn't kill themselves. Aaron had been depressed for a long time leading up to all of this, yet everyone seems to argue that the prosecution is what did it and he would have been completely fine otherwise.

They have nothing to base that off of, but that's still the case that is frequently made here.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#336

Post by wissler »

angrycoder wrote: post #183
[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…

It was, evidently, demoralization that killed Aaron. Ed took away moral support. So don't say he doesn't partly bear some responsibility.

Whether you think he deserves a measure of blame or not depends on whether you think his original remark was just or not. Evidently some could not tell ahead of time that the remarks were unjust, and evidently, this sort of person makes up the majority on HN, and it is just this sort who is making excuses for the original remark. They refuse to look in the mirror.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#338

Post by chernevik »

jacquesm wrote: post #106
astrodust wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is often difficult to discern between those that will bring excessive drama to any situation and those that are in serious peril.

The disconnect here is a simple one: how big a peril Aaron was in was not communicated clearly or effectively on the page asking for help. Apparently this was because of some legal constraints. I think that's what threw a lot of people on the wrong track entirely. Had they been in the possession of the full set of facts I'm pretty sure they would have reacted differently. See the page for yourself: https://free.aaron…

I'm sorry but which "careless and unfounded words" are you specifically referring to? Set among these events, and with a great many people assigning responsibility all over the place, this kind of thing strikes me as nothing like responsible or precise.

It was a fundraising post for legal defense. Not a plea of mental health distress. People expressed negative opinions of the request, some in light of the presumed financial position of the defendant. Are we seriously discussing review of those remarks simply for their psychological supportiveness?

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#339

Post by mpyne »

pygy_ wrote: post #253
encoderer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I up-voted his original comment I would do so again. Aaron knew what he was doing. There are many charities more deserving than his legal defense fund -- that isn't changed just because he was apparently mentally ill enough to take his own life. There should be a high burden you have to overcome to successfully find crowd-funding for anything including a legal defense.

Push anyone far enough and they'll take their own life. The threshold varies from one person to the next, but blaming his suicide on mental illness is IMO disingenuous. Which causes deserve funding is a matter of personal choice.

> Push anyone far enough and they'll take their own life.

Perhaps, but many, many people have been in situations such as Aaron's and not killed themself, so it's warranted to at least ponder if there was something else going on than a mean prosecutor. And here we don't have to wonder, it's been reported already that there was a lot of depression involved.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#340

Post by pbhjpbhj »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #132
jacquesm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded.

There's a button to express that feeling.

It doesn't _show_ the same thing as the post.

* We can't see votes so to make ascent of an opinion visible adding a "me too" is actually different to an upvote. * We can't see who has upvoted. * The commenters standing - recognised by name, work and reputation by many here I'd warrant - makes a difference too IMO.

Whilst "me too" comments get annoying they carry info here that is otherwise not available.

Post reply on HN