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Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

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Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#241

Post by ricardobeat »

encoderer wrote: post #195
angrycoder wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…

I up-voted his original comment I would do so again. Aaron knew what he was doing. There are many charities more deserving than his legal defense fund -- that isn't changed just because he was apparently mentally ill enough to take his own life. There should be a high burden you have to overcome to successfully find crowd-funding for anything including a legal defense.

There are many charities more deserving than the coffeeshop you go to, those nice kickstarter projects you backed and the companies who make your clothes. One thing doesn't null the other.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#242

Post by Mz »

derleth wrote: post #220
Mz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a woman. I go around telling women to "woman up". I try to do so in an empowering way and not be an asshole. Fuck sexism though.

> I am a woman. I go around telling women to "woman up". Well, the difference between "woman up" and "man up" is that, for men, showing emotion is a sign of weakness, so "man up" means "don't show emotion". That's a very dangerous thing to tell people who have serious emotional problems.

I don't understand it that way, but I grew up with a father who fought in two wars and was not afraid to cry in front of others.

Maybe you missed my general sentiment: Fuck sexism though. I think you and I are talking at cross purposes.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#243

Post by JohnsonB »

RegEx wrote: post #213
JohnsonB wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feds going after a 20-something idealistic activist, who we all knew was completely harmless, and hadn't committed a real crime? That can't be anything other than a severe and cruel abuse of power. I'm sorry but enough information was known at the time to conclude what was going on.

What information? I'd legitimately appreciate links/sources of the situation's severity other than hindsight.

It was known well in advance of that thread asking for help on HN that Aaron was facing major prison time from the prosecution by the feds, and we also knew a fairly detailed description of his 'crime', i.e. how he didn't really commit one.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#244

Post by VexXtreme »

xiaoma wrote: post #188
[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

I don't think the writer was blaming edw519, you or any of the other commenters on that thread. The writer was basically pointing out that the community as a whole was pretty dismissive and even a bit dickish. And that's a true assessment. One reason I don't enjoy HN as much as I did several years ago is that the default behavior seems to be to attack civil libertarians, free software enthusiasts, file sharers, build…

> One reason I don't enjoy HN as much as I did several years ago is that the default behavior seems to be to attack civil libertarians, free software enthusiasts, file sharers, builders who place idealism over profit... basically everyone but the sellers.

Don't get me started on smug narcissistic assholes who engage in self love at every opportunity and make every issue on here about themselves and their self promotion. Some individuals on this board sicken me (just look at this thread), it's a living proof that people will be people and that just because you're a young entrepreneurial hipster who likes to think of himself as a hacker doesn't make you better than other people... more likely than not, it makes you an arrogant dipshit.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#245

Post by protomyth »

NZ_Matt wrote: post #46
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Here is the HN thread from back then. Some of it makes for pretty uncomfortable reading right now. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

God dam I hate the term "man up", it really is a hugely degrading phrase. If someone is having a hard time and asks for the help the worst thing you can do is tell them to "man up" or "get over it".

Depends on the context and situation. Between friends, its a pretty good phrase to tell your buddy (regardless of sex), to be the responsible party and take some positive actions. I would never say it to a stranger or someone I didn't know well, but to a friend that needs to hear it, yes.

The women I have hung out with haven't taken offense when they had the phrase used on them, and one did use it on me (it was something I needed to hear at the time although I was in a bit of a snit for a couple of days because of her saying it).

Thinking about it, there are a lot of phrases and ways to express things that I wouldn't use on a message board or to people I didn't know well. To the people I know well, I'll use any phrase or approach that I think can reach them.

Also, I do not see and equivalence between "man up" and "get over it". The former is asking a friend to take some responsibility and action, the later is asking them to get beyond their feelings while assigning no responsibility.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#246

Post by nostrademons »

Dn_Ab wrote: post #198
[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

In a comment below you state NOBODY KNEW THESE DETAILS AT THE TIME That is exactly why judgement should have been deferred. In the face of uncertainty, given the situation, withholding comment or querying neutrally would have been optimal. That is clear with foresight, not just obvious from hindsight. I did not see that thread the first time but it is the tone and not the words that would be so damaging. Man up . Ver…

If everybody withheld comment until they knew the full story, nobody would post on Hacker News. Hell, people still don't know the full story of the Aaron Swartz court case, and yet you see an awful lot of folks willing to comment with the few tidbits they do know right now.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#247

Post by graue »

derleth wrote: post #220
Mz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a woman. I go around telling women to "woman up". I try to do so in an empowering way and not be an asshole. Fuck sexism though.

> I am a woman. I go around telling women to "woman up". Well, the difference between "woman up" and "man up" is that, for men, showing emotion is a sign of weakness, so "man up" means "don't show emotion". That's a very dangerous thing to tell people who have serious emotional problems.

Absolutely. This is a perfect example of how restrictive gender norms (or, what some might call "patriarchy") can harm men as well as women, and are something we all need to care about.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#248

Post by kamakazizuru »

RegEx wrote: post #202
kamakazizuru wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

his point is pretty clear @tptacek - he's saying that just because edw519 didnt know the facts - doesnt make it okay for him to have been a caustic douche back then.

He made a judgement based on the information provided to him. It wasn't conveyed in a nice tone, sure, and that's unfortunate. I'd prefer if everyone was nice, but sometimes things just come out really, really nasty. The usual consequence is to take your downvotes/criticisms and move on...not to become the center of some impromptu witch hunt.

I disagree - I think if anything this should be made an example of how we as a society are really quick to judge and attack someone based on minimal facts. In an age where depression is more common than a common cold - this sort of behaviour only perpetuates our psychological issues. Why do we need to be so judgemental to start with?
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