[deleted]
Maybe it outlines a issue of karma whoring? Just sayin'.
Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
191–200 of 530 posts
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
He certainly seemed to support the outrageous, overreaching prosecution that Aaron was facing. "Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills." This sounds a lot like "screw you, what you did is wrong, and you should quit whining about it." "man up" clearly implies that Ed Weissman feels that going up against the massive US justice system to allow people without university affiliatio…
Aaron did something wrong [/edit: wrong in the eyes of the law: illegal, poor word choice/], something that he knew was wrong and that is an accepted fact, correct? If he did something he knew was wrong then what edw519 said is right, he should "man up" and accept the consequences, as everyone should do when they do something wrong. The problem is what has come to light since that post was made, it has come to light…
See, here's the problem. In one sentence you're arguing that he should "accept the consequences", and in literally the very next sentence, you're describing how bad the consequences ended up being.
That is what is wrong with saying, "just accept the consequences", when you have no damn idea what the consequences are.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#193This is TechCrunch playing the role of Jerry Springer. In spite of the way many interest groups are trying to make Aaron's suicide into a symbol, the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else . Unless we have reason to believe otherwise, most of us assume that those whose actions/views we discuss on HN are of normal (average) mental health. So while Aaron's death is jarring, it's th…
> the fact is that suicide is simply a symptom of mental illness, and nothing else.
This is simplistic and wrong.
Mental illness is a factor in some attempted or completed suicides.
But is mental ill health the only factor? No. There are many things that contribute to someone attempting suicide. Significant factors include debt, relationship breakdown, recent release from a MH hospital, previous attempts at suicide, a relative who completed suicide, etc.
Many people have mental ill health, and not all of them kill themselves. The difference between the people who try suicide and those who don't is not severity of illness, but severity of other pressures.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
(1) hindsight is 20-20 (2) the facts as we know then today were not readily apparent back then (even to those that were actively seeking those facts) (3) Ed has a longstanding history of compassion and care (4) mistakes were made, but there is nobody to apologise to. Can we please stop the mobbing? Thanks.
> Can we please stop the mobbing? Thanks. Can we just say it's a good a lesson to us all? I understand what the OP must be going through now; it'd make anybody feel miserable.
> Can we just say it's a good a lesson to us all?
I'm pretty sure that it is.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#195[deleted]
An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…
I up-voted his original comment I would do so again.
Aaron knew what he was doing. There are many charities more deserving than his legal defense fund -- that isn't changed just because he was apparently mentally ill enough to take his own life.
There should be a high burden you have to overcome to successfully find crowd-funding for anything including a legal defense.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#196[deleted]
I'm not sure it's nice to have someone's full name in a discussion like this.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#197[deleted]
An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…
This is raging hindsight bias all over the place. "Next time you feel like making a 'meh' post, just say nothing at all?" Please.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#198[deleted]
In a comment below you state NOBODY KNEW THESE DETAILS AT THE TIME
That is exactly why judgement should have been deferred. In the face of uncertainty, given the situation, withholding comment or querying neutrally would have been optimal. That is clear with foresight, not just obvious from hindsight. I did not see that thread the first time but it is the tone and not the words that would be so damaging.
Man up. Very likely he had already internalized the blame for his current state. Such statements would be seen only as confirmations of his weakness and foolishness. Criticisms would be isolating and over-weighted . For someone so prodigious it would have been especially difficult.
The risk from destabilizing a person genuinely going through very difficult external and or internal moments, even if they proportion fewer, far outcosts the risk of building a careless individual's misplaced ego by giving them attention in the form of neutral to supportive questions. Yes it will take a bit more effort to not follow all "I made a mistake" with "man up and learn from it" but I think we would all be better from it. Especially those at the extreme end where manning up requires prefixing with super.
I dare say I envy those whose paths through life is such that a phrase like that enters an initial treatment of someone facing any adversity. That they have never sensed helplessness so vast, it opens a vortex to the place of lost souls, washing away the vivid colors the manned-up paint with while slowly dimming any ability to answer the on appearance hopeless question of What now? Nothing of course.. ?
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
He certainly seemed to support the outrageous, overreaching prosecution that Aaron was facing. "Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills." This sounds a lot like "screw you, what you did is wrong, and you should quit whining about it." "man up" clearly implies that Ed Weissman feels that going up against the massive US justice system to allow people without university affiliatio…
> Aaron should man up And now we see the consequences of our society's sexism. Nobody tells women to "man up".
I am a woman. I go around telling women to "woman up". I try to do so in an empowering way and not be an asshole.
Fuck sexism though.
Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something particularly bugs me about edw519's comments in the thread you linked to and the recent one about the tragedy -- http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047571 . It's an odd contrast.
Let's remember the original comment is the top one because it was voted so by the community.
Also remember that the top comment position often goes to a 'contra' position with regard to the story. The reasons for this are many: the supporters have already upvoted the headline; those drawn into any comment thread are disproportionately those with some qualifying/contentious point to make; commenters in general may skew to skeptical/negative viewpoints compared to all community readers.
Relative ranking of comments are not opinion polls and should not be construed as such. 'The HN community' is rarely of one measurable mind about anything. Finally, caring much about what the net-total click-voting is on any particular item may be a sign of misplaced priorities or insecurities. What's right and what's good is not dependent on anyone's polling.