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Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

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Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#151
post #36

I previously struggled with intense depression that lasted about 4 years. At the end of the four years, I had a realization that was so powerful that I haven't entered a period of depression lasting more than a week in the subsequent 4 years. My hopes are that this story, and the lesson learned by the end of it, may help others. In addition, its important to state that this is my story as it happened. I am one man, w…

What specific actions have you taken in order to discover the purpose of life since you decided you set yourself up to do it?

[deleted]

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life has no purpose. Bullshit. We don't know how long life lasts, nor whether supernatural purposes or intentful[0] beings exist, nor what (if anything) is after. That does not mean there is "no purpose" to it. It is its own purpose. Personally, I am most in line with Buddhism and think reincarnation is likely, and that mind (consciousness) itself is a first-class citizen, but existence doesn't have to be eternal to…

I agree with many parts of Buddhism but sorry pal, reincarnation (and heaven/hell) is totally BS. You have been cheated and ask yourself a question? Do you remember what happened before your present life? No? Then how come what you do now effects your "future" life that doesn't even care about your present life. Reincarnation is unfalsifiable( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability ), which means it is as believ…

Do you remember what happened before your present life? No?

Not in this state. The forms we take are conditioned by our karma. One aspect of the human form in this world is the inability to remember previous lives until extremely high spiritual states are attained, and even that latter bit is questioned by some.

The karmic effects and impulses continue on, invisibly. The memories (and much of the personality) die with the body. This is not a satisfying answer to some, but it's the most realistic.

And you could also ask how you are even reincarnated to a human when the probability of being a virus/bacteria is several magnitudes larger?

That discussion could go on for days: which lifeforms are sentient and which not, whether human birth makes future human birth more likely, etc. For sure: human birth is rare. Buddha compared it to an ocean with a wooden ring on it, with a turtle who rises to the surface once every 100 years. Human birth is as rare as that turtle surfacing inside that ring.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#153
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad it works for you, but I find it sad that atheism and life having no purpose depresses you. That life has no purpose effectively means that there is freedom. It is very scary, but we have to choose the purpose for ourselves. What we "lose" (it was never there actually) is the belief in an external, all-knowing guiding force that somehow makes everything we do ok. However, there are still guiding forces you ca…

>That life has no purpose effectively means that there is freedom. It is very scary, but we have to choose the purpose for ourselves. I think that this is precisely what drives many people to insanity. We are not brought up to think that we are free. When we experience freedom (either intellectually or actually) we become overwhelmed. We quite literally don't know how to handle it. We (in most of the West) are taught…

I'm atheist, and I find a godless universe stretched across the vastness of space and time exhilarating. I can do anything I want.

Anything.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#154
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not surprising that it depresses me. You say "choose the purpose for ourselves" but how can one be absolutely confident they are making the right choice? If they are not absolutely confident -- then why would they let the guiding principles of their entire life be something they're unsure of? Should they simply do what makes them happiest? No, most people agree that doing what makes you happiest is not an answer…

The physical laws of the universe iterated for a long time to produce a way to know itself: the individual conscious being. The individual conscious being is the only part of the universe capable of exerting control over itself, and thus the singly most powerful object in the universe is you, except for the competition and collaboration of your fellow conscious beings. Your local basis for value is what is good for y…

My great fear is our brains (both individually and collectively) are simply unable to comprehend the universe in its true fashion....just like my cat cannot comprehend how a door opens by pushing on it.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#155

I'm going to put my thoughts down here. The sections will be: Work Escorting and sexuality Drug and alcohol addiction Family Attention What I want The plan WORK I work as a software engineer. Well, I would, if I was able to hold a job for more than 6 months without the company getting tired of me. I'm good at what I do. My bosses love my output. I have open source projects and contributions. Even on my first programm…

I need contract coding work at times. I can send that to you if interested? Also willing to help in any other way I can. I'm in US and can point you to people/places if you land here.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#156
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, the vast majority of people who kill themselves do so as a direct result of depression. Their perceptions distorted, and their decision-making skills are impaired. If you find this "hard to comprehend", then perhaps you should re-examine your assumptions.

The vast majority being 75% ( http://www.csun.edu/~vmd53178/misconceptions.htm ) Which still leaves a quarter of suicides by those not clinically depressed. Hence my argument that generalising depression as the cause of suicide without knowing the individuals involved is a gross generalisation that is in itself offensive to the 25% who are not depressed. I've known two people reasonably well who committed suicide. On…

If you think there is a rational case for suicide, fine, but I really wish you'd discuss it elsewhere. The purpose of my post was to nudge people who are affected by irrational thoughts of suicide out of that state of mind. Pro-suicide input (rational or not) is the last thing that such a person needs.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void, it means you have influence over how it turns out. If you find it scary, then I'd suggest you might want to look around you... there is a world that exists outside your head. Think about this conversation we're having, we've probably never met, yet I am more than just a thought that exists inside your head, I am a sentient being, and I am different to you yet…

>Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void Life means nothing. There is no moral standard, universal ideal, or God to live up to or for. "Making" your life is painting a picture on a blank canvas. That is filling a void, and your saying "get out of your head!" is nothing more than your way of filling said void. Regarding our conversation, yes, it is neat. However that it is neat doesn't magically infus…

Our wires are getting crossed here because of the differences in the use of the word 'void'. I'm saying the life we know is not devoid of other life, you are saying life is devoid of meaning. I think you accept that life exists, so the question moves onto what meaning does life carry...

There's an important point to consider here, and I hope you don't take offence... perhaps the reason you believe life is devoid of meaning is because you're asking the wrong question...

Let's consider the question... What is the meaning of a tree?

A person asking such a question has set out to find a succinct answer that fits with their understanding of what constitutes meaning. If they cannot find an answer, their conclusion is that trees are meaningless. However, this is us projecting our desires onto the tree, what we're really asking is 'what message do you have for me?', and message implies there was a sender of the message, so for those that do not believe in a higher power there is no sender of a message, so really you could predict the answer before its even asked (based on who is answering it).

Furthermore, it's important to understand just because a question is simple to ask, does not mean the answer has to be simple, or even mean there is an answer at all. Let's say I asked you... What do words mean? The question was posed in 4 words, and is a valid English sentence. However, when you think of answers, you see that the question is nonsensical, words don't have one meaning, each word has its own meaning. The same is true of the question... What does life mean? The English used to pose the question is valid, but the combination of words rules out any single answer.

Furthermore, there's a difference being meaningless and worthless. Going back to the tree example, if a tree was worthless the environment it existed in would not be changed depending on whether it existed. However, we can see that the tree has an influence on the world around it.

I've stopped the tree example there, because there's one more point that must be addressed otherwise this conversation is unlikely to progress. Whilst the 'meaning of life' question does not make sense, the reasons for asking it do, and that is to work out what we should do with our life. Whilst I still maintain that 'life is what you make it', I think it'll be helpful to share a little of my personal story and philosophy.

In 2012, I tried out a religious retreat, and whilst the people there were well intentioned, I reacted badly to it, which resulted in quite a bit of soul searching. Something that helped me balance myself what the teachings of Socrates, in particular that he was the wisest man because he knew one thing... that he knew nothing. This helped me change my perspective on life... instead of reaching up for answers about higher purpose (that I could never claim knowledge of), I instead chose to embrace the life I can experience now. I find value in enjoying life and in being a positive influence in the life of others. Seems like a perfectly fine approach to me, and you see I didn't need to find a universal answer to the 'meaning of life' question to choose this path either, your path is up to you.

As for universal ideal, perhaps the Golden Rule will suffice?

Thank you for reading this longish post.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void, it means you have influence over how it turns out. If you find it scary, then I'd suggest you might want to look around you... there is a world that exists outside your head. Think about this conversation we're having, we've probably never met, yet I am more than just a thought that exists inside your head, I am a sentient being, and I am different to you yet…

Well said! I think I'm going to make this comment into a poster :)

Thank you for your positive comment. :-)

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#159
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority being 75% ( http://www.csun.edu/~vmd53178/misconceptions.htm ) Which still leaves a quarter of suicides by those not clinically depressed. Hence my argument that generalising depression as the cause of suicide without knowing the individuals involved is a gross generalisation that is in itself offensive to the 25% who are not depressed. I've known two people reasonably well who committed suicide. On…

If you think there is a rational case for suicide, fine, but I really wish you'd discuss it elsewhere. The purpose of my post was to nudge people who are affected by irrational thoughts of suicide out of that state of mind. Pro-suicide input (rational or not) is the last thing that such a person needs.

Organisations such as the Samaritans in the UK (which runs an emergency help line to support those feeling suicidal) explicitly do not denounce or avoid debate on suicide.

I haven't got a pro-suicide position, I have a rational position that accepts suicide as an option. And in my life it's been an option I've considered at times.

Yet, you would have people who have had suicidal thoughts think that they were irrational, and that they must adopt an anti-suicide position.

The very best thing that anyone can do with those with suicidal thoughts is listen. Not judge, not prevent the debate... and my point now very strongly and bluntly made, is that people are fundamentally unwilling to listen, or have any real debate.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The physical laws of the universe iterated for a long time to produce a way to know itself: the individual conscious being. The individual conscious being is the only part of the universe capable of exerting control over itself, and thus the singly most powerful object in the universe is you, except for the competition and collaboration of your fellow conscious beings. Your local basis for value is what is good for y…

My great fear is our brains (both individually and collectively) are simply unable to comprehend the universe in its true fashion....just like my cat cannot comprehend how a door opens by pushing on it.

There's a qualitative difference between our brain and cat's brain. We can do abstract reasoning, and with it we can "close over" ourselves and talk about how to improve. If we reach the point when we realize our brains are "unable to comprehend the universe" (and won't blow ourselves up before), we'll redesign our brains.
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