Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you meant -> "we SHOULDN'T" stop with the prosecutor.
Stephen P. Heymann, AUSA, too.
Asst US Attorney Stephen P Heymann (US vs. Swartz) DOX http://pastebin.com/DUgS0QTw
Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
221–230 of 251 posts
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#222Carmen Ortiz has blood on her hands for causing the death of Aaron Swartz.
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Accidentally spelling "shear" when you intended "sheer" is a mistake. Accidentally convicting someone for rape with a life sentence (due to bad due process) is ALSO a mistake. There is a big difference in magnitude AND consequence. Unless you are willing to label Aaron as just "collateral damage"?
My god, what a blatant appeal to emotion. You people complain about politicians pandering and the like, and then you say something as stupid as that. If you actually want a decent debate, it helps if you don't try frame your opponent as a sociopath.
[deleted]
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#224Schwarz downloaded documents illegally and should have been charged, but he is not the conspirator and traitor she made him out to be. In no case, should he have faced a possible 35 years in jail.
Ortiz, not Aaron, is an affront to liberalism and decency and does not deserve high office in this land.
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Accidentally spelling "shear" when you intended "sheer" is a mistake. Accidentally convicting someone for rape with a life sentence (due to bad due process) is ALSO a mistake. There is a big difference in magnitude AND consequence. Unless you are willing to label Aaron as just "collateral damage"?
My god, what a blatant appeal to emotion. You people complain about politicians pandering and the like, and then you say something as stupid as that. If you actually want a decent debate, it helps if you don't try frame your opponent as a sociopath.
So your ad hominem attack proves your point how?
Your response is neither relevant or useful.
Kindly go troll somewhere else.
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just like this is, actually. No, so not like this, actually. How many software engineers or their professional peers have been nudged, pushed or shoved into committing suicide because of a broken build? No, really? When a person in position of authority is maliciously responsible for driving people to the brink of suicide and then some, they need to be held to a higher standard because of the very position they hold.…
It is important to note; we don't and should not punish citizens, civilian or government employed, for being vindictive. We punish/rehabilitate them so that they won't hurt another human again. Unfortunately the courtroom can be a vicious, painful environment--aggressive behavior is awarded there. I think many parties are to blame--a public Government apology of any kind and promises to do better would at least be a…
Perhaps not, but we should remove vindictive individuals who are charged with meting out justice. Ortiz is one of those individuals. And we do this so they can do no more harm.
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…
" Ending her career is necessary to send a lesson to every other prosecutor " Messaging that violating proportionality in such crimes is electorally unacceptable is necessary. Villainising a messenger of the law is not. I do not doubt that Mme Ortiz believes, or at least believed, that what she did is right. Her sense of morality was reinforced by her institutional context and is not unique for a prosecutor. She simp…
You say that "She simply failed to recognise when she stepped outside the bounds where her values are recognised - this is not all that dissimilar from Aaron Swartz." The difference, of course, is that Aaron Swartz merely published documents, she was trying to send him to prison for almost the rest of his natural life.
I sure hope you can see the proportional difference between the two acts!
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
All the good she's done doesn't matter, because when you're a prosecutor, all it takes is one mistake and you've could have blood on your hands. Firing her would send a message to other prosecutors that mistakes will not be tolerated.
Which is a useless message to send. People make mistakes. Period. A system which is not robust to people making mistakes is disastrously broken.
People make mistakes. Prosecutors who make mistakes ruin the lives of innocent people. If you ruin the life of an innocent person, then you're part of that broken system.
Just remember this: this is a Prosecutor who went after Aaron Swartz, even though the alleged victim didn't want to press any charges and had dealt with the matter outside of the court system, in a way that was satisfactory to both parties (Swatz and JSTOR).
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Accidentally spelling "shear" when you intended "sheer" is a mistake. Accidentally convicting someone for rape with a life sentence (due to bad due process) is ALSO a mistake. There is a big difference in magnitude AND consequence. Unless you are willing to label Aaron as just "collateral damage"?
My god, what a blatant appeal to emotion. You people complain about politicians pandering and the like, and then you say something as stupid as that. If you actually want a decent debate, it helps if you don't try frame your opponent as a sociopath.
The last sentence, while an appeal to emotion in the way it was phrased, actually made a reasonable point. The prosecution of Aaron Swatz should never have been treated like a test case to see exactly how far the prosecution could get away with.
The law should not be made by prosecuting someone to see where the boundaries of legislation lie.
Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
My god, what a blatant appeal to emotion. You people complain about politicians pandering and the like, and then you say something as stupid as that. If you actually want a decent debate, it helps if you don't try frame your opponent as a sociopath.
The last sentence, while an appeal to emotion in the way it was phrased, actually made a reasonable point. The prosecution of Aaron Swatz should never have been treated like a test case to see exactly how far the prosecution could get away with. The law should not be made by prosecuting someone to see where the boundaries of legislation lie.
Except it is, and always has been. Legislation is written by elected representatives, and then interpreted by judges when it is "tested in court". At least in the UK, we have had well meaning legislation that was universally condemned, simply because the way it was written allowed it to be interpreted in a large number of ways, some of which were very different to the original intention of the legislation. In the US, if we look at one of the most famous civil rights activists, Rosa Parks, she was seen as so successful because she was the perfect person to be used for a test of the city's segregation laws.
That said, I personally don't believe that was the case here. It seems that in many ways this prosecution was just a standard prosecution; prosecutors often ask for crazy sentences (and don't get them-, and I don't honestly believe that there was a particularly unprecedented amount of malice on the part of the prosecution.