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Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

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171–180 of 251 posts

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#171
post #3

Don't blindly get the torches and pitchforks to treat a symtome, find the root problem and try to change the copyright/science/education/access system at the core.

What is the root of the problem? And more importantly, who do I trust to tell me what the root of the problem is.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#172
post #40
post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

"Ending her career is necessary to send a lesson to every other prosecutor"

Messaging that violating proportionality in such crimes is electorally unacceptable is necessary. Villainising a messenger of the law is not.

I do not doubt that Mme Ortiz believes, or at least believed, that what she did is right. Her sense of morality was reinforced by her institutional context and is not unique for a prosecutor. She simply failed to recognise when she stepped outside the bounds where her values are recognised - this is not all that dissimilar from Aaron Swartz. As she should have done in his case, if we intend to use her to send a message, there is no need to do so with such zeal.

I am highly conflicted about signing this petition. The call for bloodletting should never ring so clearly.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#173
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A young man is dead because Carmen M. Ortiz unambiguously railroaded him. Frankly the ignorance and tenor of her prosecution in this area makes me much less likely to believe that all those other people she fined and jailed were bad guys. That is: in the one area we do know - computer science - we can see that she pursued trumped up charges. So maybe a forensic accountant would be able to explain that in her past ris…

>The RIAA/MPAA would love to have her. She's way too toxic for business. She's got her federal pension and probably a long future in politics. Unless Obama throws her out, she's more or less set for life. Prosecutors don't get burned on stuff like this. Now if she cheated on her husband or said something bad about Jesus. This is also further proof that you can attack leftist political activists with impunity. At his…

>something bad about Jesus.

She works for the people. If the people don't like her saying bad things about Jesus, Muslims, Jews or minorities, she gets the can. That's a good thing.

Lots of people in the USA like Jesus. If even a fraction of that number could be mobilized over this injustice, she's gone.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#174
post #38
post #26

While Cameron Ortiz' actions towards Aaron Swartz were unjust, I think that she is receiving an unduly large share of the ire, and as a result, several other agents and factors in this scenario are receiving an unduly small share. While I don't particularly want to defend her, I believe that a) justice is never served well by a lynch mob b) other actors are more deserving of blame , and by focusing on Ortiz we give t…

The truth is that every prosecutor faces too many possible cases to actually pursue, and so has to choose which ones to focus on. A prosecutor may try to be neutral, but the basic act of triage forces you to show your biases. In this case Aaron stuck a laptop in an unlocked closet, used curl to download lots of links, and did absolutely nothing to hide his tracks because he did not think he was doing anything wrong.…

> In this case Aaron stuck a laptop in an unlocked closet, used curl to download lots of links, and did absolutely nothing to hide his tracks because he did not think he was doing anything wrong

Did he think he was doing anything illegal?

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#175
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a useless message to send. People make mistakes. Period. A system which is not robust to people making mistakes is disastrously broken.

Accidentally spelling "shear" when you intended "sheer" is a mistake. Accidentally convicting someone for rape with a life sentence (due to bad due process) is ALSO a mistake. There is a big difference in magnitude AND consequence. Unless you are willing to label Aaron as just "collateral damage"?

My god, what a blatant appeal to emotion. You people complain about politicians pandering and the like, and then you say something as stupid as that. If you actually want a decent debate, it helps if you don't try frame your opponent as a sociopath.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#176
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is apologism for untrammeled abuse of power. He was being threatened with 35 years in federal prison for downloading some PDFs! He would have been 61 when he got out. They would have taken away 40-50% of his life. Sometimes it is better to live free or die. The people who need "counseling" are Ortiz, Heymann, and the inhumane who'd defend or excuse this travesty. Just following orders, blind legalism.

And the hyperbole is back. He hadn't been convicted and would never have served anything close to 35 years even if he was.

Get used to the hyperbole. This issue has made HN completely insane it seems.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#177
13 Felony counts? I can only express outrage and spew vitriol towards U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz. She so desperately wants to put her name out front hoping to win the next Governor's election and she did just that, but unfortunately, at the expense of beloved Aaron Swartz's life.

MIT & JSTOR refused to press charges; potentially, misdemeanors for downloading documents for free public access & possibly violating a TOC. But Scott Garland, the other prosecutor (lap doggy), and Carmen Ortiz pursued Aaron by digging deep into their own interpretation of the law to manufacture new and more serious charges against him. Carmen Ortiz and her minions continued to badger Swartz by harassing this brilliant & heroic young man until his death by suicide. The government should have hired him rather than make him a criminal.

I wonder which murderer, child abuser or rapist the DOJ planned to spring from the overcrowded prison to make room for an open-source activist. This is just so wrong on many levels!

May you R.I.P. Aaron Swartz.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#178
13 Felony counts? I can only express outrage and spew vitriol towards U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz. She so desperately wants to put her name out front hoping to win the next Governor's election and she did just that, but unfortunately, at the expense of beloved Aaron Swartz's life.

MIT & JSTOR refused to press charges; potentially, misdemeanors for downloading documents for free public access & possibly violating a TOC. But Scott Garland, the other prosecutor (lap doggy), and Carmen Ortiz pursued Aaron by digging deep into their own interpretation of the law to manufacture new and more serious charges against him. Carmen Ortiz and her minions continued to badger Swartz by harassing this brilliant & heroic young man until his death by suicide. The government should have hired him rather than make him a criminal.

I wonder which murderer, child abuser or rapist the DOJ planned to spring from the overcrowded prison to make room for an open-source activist. This is just so wrong on many levels!

May you R.I.P. Aaron Swartz.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#179
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

" Ending her career is necessary to send a lesson to every other prosecutor " Messaging that violating proportionality in such crimes is electorally unacceptable is necessary. Villainising a messenger of the law is not. I do not doubt that Mme Ortiz believes, or at least believed, that what she did is right. Her sense of morality was reinforced by her institutional context and is not unique for a prosecutor. She simp…

I signed, and posted on Facebook the following reason to do so: "Go sign this, if you haven't already. The description fits a lot of prosecutors, but this seems as good a place as any to start cleaning up." The job of a prosecutor is to prosecute, and if they aren't careful, they fall victim to the Iron Law of Bureaucracy (http://www.google.com/search?q=Iron+Law+of+Bureaucracy). Max Weber (1864–1920), a believer in the efficiency of bureaucracies, would also have a agreed with Pournelle; Wikipedia phrases it thusly: "Weber also saw it as a threat to individual freedoms, and the ongoing bureaucratization as leading to a "polar night of icy darkness", in which increasing rationalization of human life traps individuals in the aforementioned "iron cage" of bureaucratic, rule-based, rational control. In order to counteract bureaucrats, the system needs entrepreneurs and politicians." That's what this petition is all about. It's a warning to the politicians that the prosecutorial bureaucracy has gone too far.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#180
post #141
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

She can probably kiss her governor ambitions goodbye now. The internet will destroy her campaign even before it begins.

The same internet that propelled Howard Dean and Ron Paul into the oval office?
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