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Prosecutor as bully

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Re: Prosecutor as bully

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 97% is "absurd" but 90-91% is well within reason? Moreover, in many cases the cause of a dismissal is that the prosecutor requested it, e.g. because the entire charge was a farce meant to intimidate the defendant and it by that point had either failed or (more likely) succeeded to do so and no longer needed to be maintained.

What would you prefer it be, 50/50? Would you prefer the US charge more innocent people with crimes to bring down the conviction rate? If someone is formally charged with a federal felony, that means they have been indicted by a federal Grand Jury; i.e., a majority of the 23 Grand Jurors felt that there is probable cause for charging the defendant(s) with the alleged offense(s). People indicted by Grand Juries should…

> If someone is formally charged with a federal felony, that means they have been indicted by a federal Grand Jury; i.e., a majority of the 23 Grand Jurors felt that there is probable cause for charging the defendant(s) with the alleged offense(s). People indicted by Grand Juries should end up getting convicted the vast majority of time

This is profoundly ignorant. As a Grand Juror, you will have a mountain of documents dumped on you, alleging or suggesting various crimes. The validity, accuracy, or even meaning of those documents, isn't debated or even examined.

A Grand Jury will indict anyone where the law enforcement officers have done a minimal amount of investigation and have gathered something. The process is there to prevent mass prosecution, in other words, to make sure the government does some minimal amount of work at least.

It does not, in any way, suggest guilt of any sort.

They could present a Grand Jury with documents from another case and not a single Grand Juror would be the wiser. Obviously that would be illegal and grossly inappropriate, but the fact that this could easily be done suggests that the process isn't there to determine any realistic "probable cause" ... just to make sure a minimal amount of work was completed.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#162
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

> Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, ... This is Timothy McVeigh thinking, and it makes you a loser just like it did to McVeigh. You can never kill or destroy enough people to defeat Washington, D.C. To win you have to think like Osama bin Laden: turn the system against itself. Wholesale, not retail. Scale up, not one off. TSA, not EFF.

Carmen Ortiz is not a building full of civilians, including children in a daycare. And a civil ending to a career for inappropriate and unjust use of power is not a murder or bombing.

It's appalling that your criticism of Timothy McVeigh is that he wasn't enough like Osama bin Laden. Do you really think either one of these should serve as a model?

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're lucky we can get this kind of outrage built up when it is, and then fix it for everyone. These laws get passed when the innocent victim is a sympathetic white girl, why can't they get repealed when the innocent accused is a sympathetic white boy?

No laws are being rewritten posthumously for 'sympathetic white girl'. There's really no need to inject 'prosecuted white guy' into the conversation.

[deleted]

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#164
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

The person who pushed this prosecution was Steve Heymann, not Carmen Ortiz. Before you name and shame, make sure you have the right name.

Ortiz is Heymann's boss.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/news/2011/July/SwartzAaronPR....

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#165
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your edit. There's definitely a systemic problem, but it's a systemic problem with elected officials. Naming, shaming, and voting them out is the solution.

> it's a systemic problem with elected officials Federal prosecutors are appointed, not elected, which makes the effort to name and shame them even more tenuous. Trying to fight the culture of overzealous prosecution as a whole would make it more likely that the elected official who appoints them (the president) does a better job.

How do you 'fight the culture of overzealous prosecution as a whole' without ever making reference to individuals or individual cases? You can't.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#166
post #54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

How do we go about getting this message across to her and other key people (legally)? I'm interested in helping.

How much would it cost to run a full-page ad near the front of The New York Times and Boston Globe, and some local tv ads in Boston? A targeted media campaign and the resulting echoes could easily put a stop to any political aspirations (I'm thinking 60 Minutes, Anderson Cooper, and the like).

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#167

> architects of the financial crisis regularly dine at the White House Is this empty rhetoric really necessary? There were no architects. It took over two decades of government (mis)regulation, whole banking ecosystem of incentives and repackaging, not to mention plenty of people willing to take loans they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back to bring about the crisis. Same with some great moral wrong of downloadin…

Wall Street's side bets on the mortgage market dwarfed the actual value of the real estate in question.

"And why did synthetic C.D.O.’s become popular? One reason was that the subprime companies were starting to run out of risky borrowers to make bad loans to." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/business/17nocera.html?hp

Everyone shares responsibility, sure: but culpability is proportionate with the harm. Individual mortgage holders are a rounding error in this analysis.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#168
post #18

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge. Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

I agree, we should be careful not to confuse justice with vengeance and focus on the root cause by improving the framework so that this kind of behavior by prosecutors is simply not possible. “An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.” MG. What will we say if this prosecutor commits suicide next week?

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#169
I object to the characterization of the government's prosecution as "overcharging". The correct punishment for Aaron's actions is not a smaller prison sentence, but a medal.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#170
post #3

if what the government alleged was true — and I say “if” because I am not revealing what Aaron said to me then — then what he did was wrong. And if not legally wrong, then at least morally wrong. Morally wrong to download taxpayer-funded research? I'm sorry Larry, you lost me. More on the academic publishing "industry": http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/22/academic-pu...

> Morally wrong to download taxpayer-funded research? I'm sorry Larry, you lost me. Then you've got a pretty significant misunderstanding of Larry, especially as he clarifies what he found morally wrong in the next phrases of the paragraph : > The causes that Aaron fought for are my causes too. But as much as I respect those who disagree with me about this, these means are not mine .

Larry's saying that we should fight against unjust laws in court and ride in the back of the bus on the way to the court house.
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