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Prosecutor as bully

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Re: Prosecutor as bully

#11

Post by jiggy2011 »

pbateman wrote: post #2

From the link in the article: Depending on how many of the counts Swartz is found guilty of, the sentence could conceivably total 50+ years and fine in the area of $4 million. What an absurd and unreasonable level of punishment. Carmen Ortiz, the prosecutor who was behind this[1] needs to be publicly shamed. [1] (source: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-c... )

As a rule I find it difficult to justify a prison sentence (beyond perhaps a short "scare them straight" visit) to somebody who has committed a crime that isn't violent (or causing others to commit violence) or perhaps something that causes widespread distress (certain types of fraud).

Of course this would make it difficult to jail alcapones perhaps.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#12

Post by Vivtek »

miles wrote: post #3

if what the government alleged was true — and I say “if” because I am not revealing what Aaron said to me then — then what he did was wrong. And if not legally wrong, then at least morally wrong. Morally wrong to download taxpayer-funded research? I'm sorry Larry, you lost me. More on the academic publishing "industry": http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/22/academic-pu...

What Lessig sees as the moral problem may not be the retrieval itself but the use of resources. I dunno, I'm just guessing.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#14

Post by guan »

exit wrote: post #7
vertr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, who is this prosecutor? http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/contact.html

pbateman linked to an nytimes article that names 'Carmen M. Ortiz'. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-c... > Mr. Swartz was indicted last Thursday by the United States Attorney for the District of Massachusetts, Carmen M. Ortiz, and the indictment was unsealed Tuesday. The charges could result in up to 35 years in prison and a $1 million fine. there must be more people behind this though.

Federal prosecutors have a lot of independence and discretion. She could easily have let Aaron go with a slap on the wrist or pursued lesser charges.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#15

Post by spindritf »

> architects of the financial crisis regularly dine at the White House

Is this empty rhetoric really necessary? There were no architects. It took over two decades of government (mis)regulation, whole banking ecosystem of incentives and repackaging, not to mention plenty of people willing to take loans they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back to bring about the crisis.

Same with some great moral wrong of downloading a stack of papers and making them public. Many paid for by the public or even already publicly available.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#16

Post by [deleted] »

pbateman wrote: post #2

From the link in the article: Depending on how many of the counts Swartz is found guilty of, the sentence could conceivably total 50+ years and fine in the area of $4 million. What an absurd and unreasonable level of punishment. Carmen Ortiz, the prosecutor who was behind this[1] needs to be publicly shamed. [1] (source: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-c... )

[deleted]

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#18

Post by agwa »

From the article: For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge.

Remember, this was on HN just a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5003335

Once again we see the true nature of criminal prosecutions: the prosecutor's tactic is to bring outrageous charges that could result in decades in prison, bankrupt the defendant one way or the other (seizing assets or making the case so complex it bleeds him dry), and then use that to coerce a guilty plea. It's no wonder that trials by jury are becoming so vanishingly rare that even the Supreme Court has written that "in today’s criminal justice system, the negotiation of a plea bargain, rather than the unfolding of a trial, is almost always the critical point for a defendant." [1]

Do we really want to live in a country where your right to a trial is an empty right?

[1] http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-444.pdf

Edited to add: many people in this thread want to name and shame the individual prosecutor in this case. That is seriously misdirected effort that is not going to solve the systemic problems. It may even exasperate them, as it falsely implies that the problem is with individual overstepping prosecutors rather than a system in which it's the norm.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#19

Post by waterlesscloud »

pbateman wrote: post #2

From the link in the article: Depending on how many of the counts Swartz is found guilty of, the sentence could conceivably total 50+ years and fine in the area of $4 million. What an absurd and unreasonable level of punishment. Carmen Ortiz, the prosecutor who was behind this[1] needs to be publicly shamed. [1] (source: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/reddit-co-founder-c... )

She has been rumored as a candidate for Governor or Senator, but denies interest (such denials often mean nothing).

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2013/01/...

The Boston Globe named her "Bostonian Of The Year" in 2011.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011...

Like most things, it seems complicated. She's done a lot of good for society, but it looks like she really screwed up in this particular case.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#20

Post by jmvoodoo »

This type of behavior makes me wonder what the incentive structure is (both financially and socially) for these prosecutors? IMO that's what needs to change if we are going to have any sort of real justice in the future. Going after individuals might make us feel better for a little while, but it won't save the next Aaron Schwartz from the same fate.
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