Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

blog.simplyinsured.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 185 posts

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#161

Post by wissler »

jaaron wrote: post #143
wissler wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I decide to live in a community in which we reject the idea that we are all barbarian animals, fighting for scarce resources in a dog-eat-dog world. Your world is one where you point a gun to my head (using the government of course) and tell me what kind of medical care I can trade with some guy you don't even know. So don't talk to me about "barbarian animals", OK? Your only means of doing what you think i…

No, I don't point a gun to your head. Instead, we agree on a mechanism by which to make decisions and reach compromise. As everyone has different opinions and agendas, compromise is required. Not everyone, no one perhaps, will get their full agenda realized. Via those mechanisms (voting, representation, legislating, enforcement), we establish the rules of the society. If you don't like the rules of the society, you c…

I didn't agree.

There's no concise way to answer why your underlying political philosophy is wrong, unfortunately. One thing that should be a clue though is that the majority agrees with you. That's always a bad sign.

As it happens I did write a book on this topic, I don't know what the etiquette is here for posting links, just search "for individual rights" in books, you'll see it. If I could provide a more concise argument, I would, but that's the best I can do, sorry.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#162

Post by wissler »

jgon wrote: post #141
wissler wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I decide to live in a community in which we reject the idea that we are all barbarian animals, fighting for scarce resources in a dog-eat-dog world. Your world is one where you point a gun to my head (using the government of course) and tell me what kind of medical care I can trade with some guy you don't even know. So don't talk to me about "barbarian animals", OK? Your only means of doing what you think i…

No one is pointing a gun to your head. Okay someone is "pointing a gun to your head" in the same sense they are "pointing a gun to your head" to prevent you from murdering someone. But unless you are posting from North Korea you live in a country with the world's longest undefended border (aka the Canadian border). You can leave at any time and renounce your citizenship and literally no one will stop you. Seriously,…

"If you don't like it, leave."

Might doesn't make right. This land is not all your land. You may have total and utter domination of it, but that's not a moral argument.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#163

Post by run4yourlives »

grecy wrote: post #160
run4yourlives wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They should have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Says the healthy young guy. :-) Many people receive extended benefits at a significant cost advantage through group insurance. Also most employers pay a significant portion (if not all) of the premium of these benefits! You and I may see a health questionnaire as a simple form where you answer "no" to everything and sign it, but many, many people not much ol…

> It's like being offered a cell phone or a car allowance. Which reduces your overall salary - you might not be aware of it, and it might not be said in those terms, but it's absolutely true. All "side benefits" or "perks" of employment are just a way for the employer to give you something other than money. Too bad if the last thing you want is a cell phone. > Why in god's name you would turn down what in many cases…

At this point though, you are evaluating employers, not health care systems.

It's pretty easy to find an employer in Canada that offers no benefit plan at all, just stay away from larger companies.

Most privately run businesses would be more than happy contracting you at a higher rate and not paying you any additional benefits, or their share of CPP or EI. They are a significant expense to the company. Go get yourself a GST number and have at 'er.

Seriously, if this is that much of an issue for you, you should talk to your boss. I can pretty much guarantee they'd be more than happy to work something out with you.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#165

Post by jimbokun »

run4yourlives wrote: post #131
MichaelSalib wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between single-payer and a nationalized healthcare system. In the latter, doctors are government employees. The UK and Canada work that way, and choose to spend very little money on healthcare. But most peer nations have single-payer non-nationalized healthcare systems and choose to spend more than Canada and the UK, but much much less than the US. With a single payer, the commercial service…

No doctor in Canada is a government employee. They are all self employed, and some even receive payments privately. The issue you are getting at is that for some (most) services, only the Government can be a "legal" customer.

Having a single "customer" and having a boss is a pretty fine semantic distinction, don't you think?

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#166

Post by jimbokun »

OldSchool wrote: post #109
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaiser is great unless/until they refuse to cover you because your medical history includes one of hundreds of disqualifying conditions, or they decide to renege on their coverage using contract fine print and creative (re)interpretation of your medical history. In other words, Kaiser is great if a big company that employs you is making sure you're covered. My point is that Kaiser vs. Health Canada isn't an apples/ap…

Reminds me of the ONE truly profitable piece of legal advice I've ever received from a lawyer: Having an insurance policy really only guarantees you the right to sue your insurance company if they refuse to pay a claim. He said this as we walked outdoors in a large American city and then pointed out the tallest building on the skyline - an insurance company HQ. This wasn't health insurance but the point is the same.

Isn't that true of any contract?

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#167

Post by run4yourlives »

jimbokun wrote: post #165
run4yourlives wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doctor in Canada is a government employee. They are all self employed, and some even receive payments privately. The issue you are getting at is that for some (most) services, only the Government can be a "legal" customer.

Having a single "customer" and having a boss is a pretty fine semantic distinction, don't you think?

Yes and no. "most" is not equivalent to "all", and there are several private health practices in Canada.

http://falsecreekhealthcare.rtrk.ca/ http://www.csc-surgery.com/

There is an ever increasing grey area in Canada with regards to what procedures can be paid for by entities outside of the Government.

It was actually recently found unconstitutional to deny someone willing to pay directly their medical services.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#168

Post by jgon »

wissler wrote: post #162
jgon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is pointing a gun to your head. Okay someone is "pointing a gun to your head" in the same sense they are "pointing a gun to your head" to prevent you from murdering someone. But unless you are posting from North Korea you live in a country with the world's longest undefended border (aka the Canadian border). You can leave at any time and renounce your citizenship and literally no one will stop you. Seriously,…

"If you don't like it, leave." Might doesn't make right. This land is not all your land. You may have total and utter domination of it, but that's not a moral argument.

No it doesn't make right. But, excepting various inalienable rights, majority makes right in a representative democracy. And the majority have said that they derive greater utility out of having these rules and regulations than not having them. By staying in the society you are agreeing to abide by them, and to deal with the punishments for breaking them. You are not forced to stay in society though, so you can reject this deal at any time.

You claim there is a gun to your head, but this is the weirdest robbery I've ever heard of, where you can opt out at any time you choose. Any and all guns that may be metaphorically pointed at you are ones you have agreed to have pointed at you. Our system for determining what guns point where boils down to where the majority would like them to point, subject to the constraints of a constitution.

I normally hate the love it or leave it argument as well, but if you are going to insist on using this childish metaphor, then I have no alternative but to point out that you can end this apparently life or death matter at any time of your choosing. Literally any time.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#169

Post by sjg007 »

dalore wrote: post #47
EvanAnderson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Insuring against inevitability is silly, and health insurance shouldn't cover those events. A friend of mine uses the analogy of "food insurance" to describe the dysfunctional nature of attempts to insure against the inevitable.

So life/death insurance is silly? No, insuring against an inevitability isn't silly because there are other factors to consider. Like when the inevitable occurs. Insurers are taking a risk that you put more in before that happens.

Life insurance is really only necessary for surviving spouses and children.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#170

Post by sjg007 »

mikejharrison wrote: post #113

I'd like a single insurance policy to cover me for everything, driving my car, riding my motorbike, health care, critical illness, theft/damage of my possessions or property etc. I'd be happy for lots of data to be collected to refine the policy and tailor the price specifically. Put a black box in my vehicles, collect data about my activity / exercise with a fitbit type device, access my medical record. If it means…

It is not clear if the aggregate pool in general results in cheaper prices vs the complete customized personal option.

In fact, if the former is cheaper, then just paying taxes is the best option.

Post reply on HN