What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013 • Hacker News Board

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#131

Post by run4yourlives » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

MichaelSalib wrote: post #86

tptacek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. Republicans are anti-public health care because public care sets in motion a process that moves care decisions into federal bureaucracies, which is absolutely a problem that Canada and the UK have. Also, health care is ineluctably two things: a vital necessity and a commercial service. With a single payer, the commercial service objective is warped: patients and doctors are motivated to make care dec…

There is a big difference between single-payer and a nationalized healthcare system. In the latter, doctors are government employees. The UK and Canada work that way, and choose to spend very little money on healthcare. But most peer nations have single-payer non-nationalized healthcare systems and choose to spend more than Canada and the UK, but much much less than the US. With a single payer, the commercial service…

No doctor in Canada is a government employee. They are all self employed, and some even receive payments privately.

The issue you are getting at is that for some (most) services, only the Government can be a "legal" customer.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#132

Post by tptacek » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #129

tptacek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying there is a problem with it, I'm just saying that the existence of a PH market in the UK is not a strong counter to the Republican concern about a government takeover of the market for health services.

Indeed, and that is perhaps one of the two coherent claims made by republicans against a decent public options (single payer or otherwise). Coherent Claim 1: The existence of a public option harms the viability and structure of a private option Coherent Claim 2: A healthy, careful individual should not be forced to subsidize an individual who does not take care of their own health - but is forced to by a public optio…

Those two "coherent claims" are so broad that they capture most of the the individual specific arguments made against public health insurance; a conservative could reply that there are only a few "coherent claims" for public insurance too.

And, obviously, Republicans aren't big fans of public schools either. In fact, unlike private health care, which is out-executed by Medicare, public education is generally outperformed dollar-for-dollar by private education. (Note: I am strong, strong supporter of public education and oppose vouchers).

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#133

Post by run4yourlives » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:21 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #106

grecy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't suggest you model it after Canada's system. It's good, but it could be better. I moved to Canada from Australia, so I'll compare the two systems for you. Canada: "healthcare for all" provides basic coverage of everything you need. Works pretty well. Even homeless / out of work people are fully covered. Things like dental and chiropractor are not covered, so you pay for those. Employers give "health care" whic…

It's a good thing they don't pay for pseudoscientific quackery like chiropractors.

chiropractors, message, acupuncture, etc are often covered under private health insurance.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#134

Post by run4yourlives » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:22 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #46

jgon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While most employers do offer an "extra frills" health plan as part of employment, private insurance at fairly good rates is available to everyone. I could call up Blue Cross this afternoon and get a private health plan equivalent to my employer's if I chose to. EDIT: I still really like the Australian system and wouldn't be upset if we started incorporating some of the ideas it contains. I just wanted to point out t…

Right, but your employer is still deducting that amount from your paycheck, so you are losing out. (At the Canadian company I work for, they estimate the 'benefits' overhead is around 26% of my salary - Yes, that is extremely high, because I can't choose the plan or coverage, the company dictates it for me. Married people with 10 kids pay the same amount I do... so you can see I'm getting a shit deal and would much r…

That's a condition of your employment though. Nothing is forcing them to offer a health plan at all.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#135

Post by prostoalex » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:23 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #35

grecy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't suggest you model it after Canada's system. It's good, but it could be better. I moved to Canada from Australia, so I'll compare the two systems for you. Canada: "healthcare for all" provides basic coverage of everything you need. Works pretty well. Even homeless / out of work people are fully covered. Things like dental and chiropractor are not covered, so you pay for those. Employers give "health care" whic…

Here in Canada, if you want "better than basic" health-care you can pay for it yourself. The net cost is under $1,000 a year for a typical individual who wants the deluxe treatment.

Net cost of what? Pregnancy with complications, chemotherapy, spinal surgery or teeth cleaning is all <$1,000 with deluxe package?

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#136

Post by run4yourlives » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:25 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #135

astrodust wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Canada, if you want "better than basic" health-care you can pay for it yourself. The net cost is under $1,000 a year for a typical individual who wants the deluxe treatment.

Net cost of what? Pregnancy with complications, chemotherapy, spinal surgery or teeth cleaning is all <$1,000 with deluxe package?

Pregnancy - Covered by national plan, all in.

chemotherapy - Ditto

spinal surgery - Ditto

Your $1000 is getting you a nicer room, name brand meds, etc etc.

teeth cleaning - This would be offered under Dental Coverage, which is completely private in Canada.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#137

Post by mhurron » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:31 PM UTC

kjackson2012 wrote: post #36

kzahel wrote: post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

I have Canadian friends, and although they would do anything to preserve their health care, they complain about how long it takes them to make appointments for specialists, tests, etc. I live in the Bay Area, and I have Kaiser HMO, and I love them. They seem vastly superior to Canadian health care in every respect. Even in cost, my friends in Toronto have to pay $100/month each as a Health Tax. Case in point, I got a…

> My friend told me that the average wait time in Canada for an endoscopy is 9 months

Wait times for specialist visits that are not life threatening are just as long in the US as in Canada.

There is a persistent myth in Canada among people who have never had to get in depth medical care in Canada and the US that the Canadian system makes you wait until you are dying but in the US you just wave some bills and you see the specialist that day.

(US) Mother-in-Law has to schedule months (4-6) in advance for colon cancer screening because they find polyps every time, not just because of age. Cost - IIRC ~$50 with insurance.

(Canada) Father complained about shortness of breath walking to work (Wednesday), saw his doctor (Thursday), was checked in to the hospital that day, had a angioplasty. (Saturday). Why? Was life threatening. Cost - $150.

I'll take Canadian health care over the US squeeze for money every time.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#138

Post by te_chris » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:32 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #67

rprasad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Issues with private health care: 1) Private health insurers haven't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive. My premiums go up by double digit percentages every year because "costs" keep increasing, but at the same time, insurers' profits go up by double digit percentages every year. It seems like this is simply a money transfer to health care executives. 2) The more private companies run our…

Total BS. Have any figures to support your first point? Here's CIGNA: http://yhoo.it/TLkvyd increase in Net Income: 2010 - 3.3%, 2011 - (1.3%) >the more they will be able to dictate our choices Private companies can't force you do to anything, only government can do that. http://bit.ly/Q4lj1s http://nbcnews.to/rK90ox >government control is that we actually have some say in how the government controls us because at th…

You say that as if socialised medicine is somehow novel and untested? Look at most of the Commonwealth countries, there are no shortage of students applying to study medicine and they still get paid well. Take your blinkers off - or leave them on to be honest, I'm super happy with my socialist healthcare (which I supplement with cheap private cover for faster elective procedures).

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#139

Post by beagle3 » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

IanDrake wrote: post #67

rprasad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Issues with private health care: 1) Private health insurers haven't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive. My premiums go up by double digit percentages every year because "costs" keep increasing, but at the same time, insurers' profits go up by double digit percentages every year. It seems like this is simply a money transfer to health care executives. 2) The more private companies run our…

Total BS. Have any figures to support your first point? Here's CIGNA: http://yhoo.it/TLkvyd increase in Net Income: 2010 - 3.3%, 2011 - (1.3%) >the more they will be able to dictate our choices Private companies can't force you do to anything, only government can do that. http://bit.ly/Q4lj1s http://nbcnews.to/rK90ox >government control is that we actually have some say in how the government controls us because at th…

> As it is there is a shortage of nurses and doctors. Partly because it costs a lot of money and effort to enter that profession.

In the not-so-distant-past (less than 10 years ago!) mostly because the AMA tightly controls the influx of new people to the field, in an attempt to make sure that the salaries remain high: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4561/does-the-am...

(Although now they are trying, so far unsuccessfully, to reverse it)

> How many people will be motivated to go that direction if they'll be slaves to government decree?

Instead of philosophizing in the void, why don't you look at other countries where, gasp, that is the case? Look at Canada, France, the UK, Israel, Hungary, and any other single payer country. Medical schools still have a 1:10 acceptance ratio, and are usually the hardest or 2nd hardest to get into. There is no "race to the bottom" in countries that had this system for over 50 years.

> Also, the profit motive is what keeps costs down and service levels high.

And yet, the US system is the most expensive system for what it gives (compared to single payer), and what it gives isn't better when you measure e.g. life expectancy. I would say you never actually looked at data if you can say that with a straight face.

> The less regulated an industry is, the better the service and products are available to consumers who now have choice.

I agree about that, but the US healthcare industry is extremely regulated in all the wrong ways. For example, they are exempt from any claim of anticompetitive or antitrust. How do you think that affects choice?

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#140

Post by IanDrake » Wed, Jan 09, 2013, 9:36 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #138

IanDrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total BS. Have any figures to support your first point? Here's CIGNA: http://yhoo.it/TLkvyd increase in Net Income: 2010 - 3.3%, 2011 - (1.3%) >the more they will be able to dictate our choices Private companies can't force you do to anything, only government can do that. http://bit.ly/Q4lj1s http://nbcnews.to/rK90ox >government control is that we actually have some say in how the government controls us because at th…

You say that as if socialised medicine is somehow novel and untested? Look at most of the Commonwealth countries, there are no shortage of students applying to study medicine and they still get paid well. Take your blinkers off - or leave them on to be honest, I'm super happy with my socialist healthcare (which I supplement with cheap private cover for faster elective procedures).

Look at most of the Commonwealth countries. Which one specifically?

>I'm super happy with my socialist healthcare

Net consumers are typically very happy in socialist environments, no shock there.