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Never Lie About Who You Really Are

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Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#101

Post by jiggy2011 »

elemenohpee wrote: post #81
jiggy2011 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need to invent a wife? Usually when you are making small talk with someone who you will most likely only be in the company of for 5 minutes they are more interested in avoiding awkward silence than actually finding out details about your life. If you don't bring up a wife they will just as easily assume that you are single or divorced as much as gay. Besides , people who work in a public facing role lik…

Notice that all the examples he gave were cases where a stranger made an assumption that put him in the position of either telling them he was gay or lying about it. It's interesting that commenters here keep having to invent a scenario where the guy was going around shouting to every passerby that he was gay. Yes, there are no cab drivers anywhere who might be perturbed by someone saying they are gay. Thanks jiggy20…

Outside of maybe very conservative areas or muslim countries I would imagine a cab driver being perturbed by gay people would not be in the business very long.

I don't hang around in typically "gay" circles or even know that many people in general but I know enough gay people that homosexuality is not surprising for me at all.

For the purposes of casual conversation with strangers, if someone asks about a wife surely it's simple enough to say "I'm not married" and allow them to assume whatever they like unless you feel like sharing more.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#102

Post by scarmig »

Jabbles wrote: post #18

Just because you shouldn't have to lie about it, doesn't make it good advice to never lie about it. There are, sadly, many places in the US (and many in the rest of the world) where expressing your true self will cause you (physical/emotional) harm. If you live in such a place, be careful.

It's important to think about it carefully and choose your battles. But it's also very possible to over-think it: most of the bad things that can happen are minor in comparison with the importance of coming out. Even a tourist in the most rednecky parts of Mississippi (and, yes, I grew up queer in a somewhat similar area) isn't going to be thrown in jail by the cops on some pretext or have some thugs at the local diner pull him outside and beat him just for being upfront about being gay.

Why not? Because so many people have come before and been open about it. Being gay might be wrong in some of the locals' minds, but it's already pretty normal. And it does good: that trucker dude you had a lovely discussion with one morning at Waffle House who had never met an (out) gay person in his life? Well, now he knows that gay people actually exist and can be totally fine folk. He's not going to be helping plan any Pride parades soon, but baby steps.

Edited to add: this is with reference to random people you meet in day to day life. Coming out to parents and friends is much riskier, which is usually why it takes much planning and support of other loved ones in your life.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#103

Post by gizzlon »

chernevik wrote: post #82
jpwagner wrote: post #24

I hope I'm not insensitive, but if I'm having a bad day and my cab driver (or just about any total stranger) asks "how is your day" I am not compelled to tell him about the intricacies of being me. It's not about fighting for "the truth", it's simply practical. This is generally how to behave for all matters of sex, politics, religion, and anything else personal. Small talk is small talk.

Everyone finds for themselves what witness they must bear. If the OP feels an obligation to help transform social views of homosexuality, well that's their duty as they see it. Likewise those evangelicals who feel the need to bear witness to what Jesus has done for them. If they share a cab it could well be an exhausting ride for everybody but this is beside the point of their obligations as they seem them. We must a…

We must all do the right as we see it. [..] Doing what _you_ think wrong is wrong.

Hmm.. this seems like a form of relativism. Are you implying the inverse as well: Doing what _you_ think right is right?

How do you defend that if "right" for me happens to be walking around nude in public, or more extreme, shooting people that I disagree with?

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#104

Post by gizzlon »

jpxxx wrote: post #83
PaperclipTaken wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the quote from Lincoln. (paraphrasing) "Just because we know which direction is true north doesn't mean we should instantly head full speed in that direction, for we risk getting stopped by impassible obstacles." We live in a world where we are lucky to be able to be mostly open about what we believe in. But there are still situations where being honest about yourself may lose you a job, or a custome…

Does that pressure come at the business end of a bat? Have you ever known someone had their face smashed in for calling someone a homo or for disliking billboards? The drive to not be literally exterminated is a powerful one, so you can be damn sure that pressure for tolerance will continue to be applied now that its "officially" acceptable to apply such pressure.

Does that pressure come at the business end of a bat?

Not what the OP or the GP are talking about. It might be a valid discussion, but it's not this discussion.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#105

Post by pyre »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #16
gadders wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common, but daft. It makes every relationship sound like a firm of solicitors. I don't see what's wrong with wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend.

Many people over the age of, say, 30, feel weird about using the word "boyfriend" or "girlfriend", because they feel that it implies a young person.

"partner" implies a deeper relationship than many "boyfriend/girlfriend" relationships. When someone describes someone as their partner (in a relationship context), I assume they are married or common-law (or would be married if it was legal -- e.g. gay marriage).

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#106

Post by jpxxx »

king_jester wrote: post #88
jpxxx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is true, so think about it until you get it.

Except it's totally not, being straight in most places in the world is the default and everyone is seen through a lens of being straight. Coming out refers to revealing to people that you are not straight.

Fine, I'll yield the semantic argument. "Coming out" in the context of sexuality typically refers to homosexuals publicly expressing their preference for the first time and adjusting their public identity to match.

I was attacking the idea that most aren't judged upon first expressing their sexual desires. It's important anywhere and everywhere. Bringing home a partner of a different color? Size? Class? "Looks"? Judgement is issued. In some cultures the kind of partner you're able to pull speaks directly to the honor or worth of the family. It's never not a big deal.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#107

Post by ams6110 »

jpxxx wrote: post #72
fallous wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would my "sexuality" be a topic for anyone other than those close to me? If my wife and I like to dress up as robotic ninjas in order to get satisfaction, well then that's between my wife and I despite how "out of mainstream" it is and is no business of anyone else. I tire of the "acceptance" desire of so many people in so many areas of their lives. Tolerance != acceptance, it merely means that someone can tolera…

Your sexuality doesn't come in air-quotes, and you're teetering dangerously close to the word "choice" in a topic where no such thing exists. Your sexuality informs and alters 100% of your life.

Your sexuality informs and alters 100% of your life.

No it doesn't. And choice exists in almost everything.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#108

Post by pyre »

pretoriusB wrote: post #97
lucian1900 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed it. I know a guy well into his 50s who says "girlfriend" and she's of similar age.

You "haven't noticed it" because you know ONE guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Translated:

  I know many people, and none of them refer to their
  significant other as a 'partner.' For example, I know
  one guy that is 50, who refers to his same-aged
  significant other as his 'girlfriend,' and it doesn't
  seem to bother him that 'girl' is in the name instead
  of 'woman.'

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#109

Post by ForrestN »

I'm gay and this analogy is strained and opportunistic.

The charged moment when you're buying flowers for a same-sex partner is charged psychologically, not because of external fears. I live in a very liberal city, and there's almost zero chance I'm going to get bullied by the lady at the flower shop. It's charged because of how I grew up, because of the other people who made me feel like an outsider or a freak, because of what it means more broadly that the world, even this city, is set up for other people.

None of that comes into complaining about the speakers being on the wrong side of a TV. True, you can use slippery language to say that these are both "standing up for truth" or something, but in reality the motives behind each gesture are totally different. Standing up for quality as a person in a supply chain might be admirable, but it is not a "coming out" and it is not emotionally charged in the same way that revealing your homosexuality, over and over again, still is.

He talks to the cab driver because not doing so would mean rejecting himself. You mention the speakers because you want your company to do well and you're frustrated that the person who's job it is missed something blatant.

Re: Never Lie About Who You Really Are

#110

Post by CaptainZapp »

scarmig wrote: post #102
Jabbles wrote: post #18

Just because you shouldn't have to lie about it, doesn't make it good advice to never lie about it. There are, sadly, many places in the US (and many in the rest of the world) where expressing your true self will cause you (physical/emotional) harm. If you live in such a place, be careful.

It's important to think about it carefully and choose your battles. But it's also very possible to over-think it: most of the bad things that can happen are minor in comparison with the importance of coming out. Even a tourist in the most rednecky parts of Mississippi (and, yes, I grew up queer in a somewhat similar area) isn't going to be thrown in jail by the cops on some pretext or have some thugs at the local din…

I totally agree about all the baby steps, which, over time turn into a flow and then a torrent.

Example? Look at the attitude change regarding gay weddings in the US during the last twenty years.

In ten years married gay couples will be pretty normal and it started with only a small number of "weirdos" some 20 years ago, who where true to themselves.

Fort the record: I'm straight but feel that it's beyond the pale that people should be denied love and happyness, just because we don't share the same sexual orientation.

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