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Mark Lynas, environmentalist who opposed GMOs, admits he was wrong.

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Re: Mark Lynas, environmentalist who opposed GMOs, admits he was wrong.

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think "incremental" is a bit of an understatement if we can, for example, feed tens of millions of humans in parts of the world where conventional crops cannot (yet?) provide reliable and sufficient nutrition, a critical step in reducing poverty. You can argue about many benefits, but genetic engineered crops is hardly a solution to poverty and malnutrition.

Apologies if I'm off base, but can you correct my logic? If GMOs[1] can enable the growth of more productive and nutritious food crops, it follows that they can enable more efficient agriculture. Lower inputs of resources (including time) and higher output (meaning, hopefully, less hunger and lower food prices) would seem to translate to the higher availability of resources to allocate to other ventures. If communiti…

> If GMOs[1] can enable the growth of more productive and nutritious food crops, it follows that they can enable more efficient agriculture.

Productivity only matters for large monocultures, like soy, corn, sugar cane, where the costs are fixed and profit comes from the output - exactly the people who do not produce to feed poor people.

Poor people depend on subsistence polycultures, which don't require high productivity because they don't profit off it. On the other hand, these engineered seeds incur higher initial costs they can't afford.

People starve not because agriculture is not productive enough, but because they can't produce themselves, for a variety of reasons: the government can't ensure they keep their land (they sell for lumber/mining/monocultures, or have their land stolen outright), food production is not local (thus too expensive), lack infrastructure (most of the times, water) or simply lack knowledge on better ways to irrigate, fertilize and handle the soil. GMOs don't solve any of those problems, they just reduce even further the amount of people who can produce themselves.

Highly nutritive crops is another BS. People just need access to a large variety of food (polyculture) to maintain health, not an engineered corn, rich in iron and full of pesticide, that costs three times as much to produce.

Re: Mark Lynas, environmentalist who opposed GMOs, admits he was wrong.

#83
post #8
post #4

His views are insubstantial. His main argument is that his previous ad hominem positions were not sufficient to condemn GMOs (correct) and that GMOs haven't caused any problems yet. He has not presented evidence that GMO's are safe. He has two main arguments: 1. Trial and error crossbreeding affects entire genes. 2. Viruses sometimes spread genes from one organism to another. First, trial and error crossbreeding isn'…

I'm curious what sort of realistic disaster scenario you think might occur due to cross-species gene transfer (and for that matter, purely synthetic genes) in GMOs, and how the existing safeguards are inadequate against it. Normally I'm against FUD, but please, go nuts, so long as there's a reasonable chance of it occurring (i.e. we're not talking about a mad scientist who wants to create man-eating plants)

Extensive use of Roundup Ready crops leads to evolution of weeds that are resistant to glyphosate.

How do you prepare fields for cropping if all the weeds are resistant to herbicides? Use stronger herbicides? How is this not an environmental disaster?

What happens when altering the gene of a wheat plant to make it resistant to rust ends up adding a cumulative poison (e.g. a protein or prion associated with the rust resistance) causing the body to leech calcium from bones? Over 30 years we figure the gene was safe, then comes a 100 year long epidemic of brittle bones due to the rust gene being forgotten and no un modified wheat being available to breed clean strains from.

Or leaving the food chain entirely: what about living in a world where you are not allowed to grow food plants in your own backyard and collect the seeds yourself to provide for next year's crop?

Why do we have to increase the food supply to feed an ever-expanding population?

Re: Mark Lynas, environmentalist who opposed GMOs, admits he was wrong.

#84
post #65

If he's changed his mind based on facts, then I'm happy for him. However, the implications of Monsanto's Terminator seed technology (DRM for plants) is so sweeping and, frankly, frightening that whatever time society wasted due to the anti-GMO activism was worth it. Does anyone really think that if we didn't make a stink about GMO that they wouldn't have gone full steam ahead? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic…

> the implications of Monsanto's Terminator seed technology (DRM for plants) what do intellectual property laws have to do with being pro or con GMOs?

IP law has everything to do with GMO: do you think Monsanto is going to let you collect seed from your GMO crop to plant next year without paying them a licence for the genes?

Re: Mark Lynas, environmentalist who opposed GMOs, admits he was wrong.

#85

Plant breeding has always been tinkering with the genome, why aren't people scared of it? Read the Wikipedia page on the various ways plants are bombarded with radiation, mutagenic chemicals, have nuclei fuzed with electricity, et al in "non-GMO 'organic'" plant breeding. Why is the more error prone process, in which we are ignorant of the mechanism, presumed safer? If we invented a machine which randomly bred plants…

Take the International Rice Organisation's IR8. It was supposed to be a miracle rice that yielded double the rice of existing strains. Introducing this rice meant farmers had to use pesticides, herbicides and fertilisers which had not previously been part of their practices. The herbicides and pesticides killed the local ecosystems including secondary crops which used to grow alongside the rice in paddies.

The IR8 was certainly higher yield when fed properly, but under-performed without that industrial support. That industrial support costs money: so the farmer has to produce more rice to pay for the materials required to produce more rice, in what is essentially a net loss situation.

What price to you put on the sound of frogs singing in the rice field? What value is there in being able to drink or swim in the water downstream without fear of poisoning?

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