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A Million First Dates

theatlantic.com

81–90 of 150 posts

Re: A Million First Dates

#81

  “Societal values always lose out,” says Noel Biderman, the founder of Ashley Madison, which calls itself 
  “the world’s leading married dating service for discreet encounters”—that is, cheating. “Premarital sex 
  used to be taboo,” explains Biderman. “So women would become miserable in marriages, because they 
  wouldn’t know any better. But today, more people have had failed relationships, recovered, moved on, and 
  found happiness. They realize that that happiness, in many ways, depends on having had the failures. As 
  we become more secure and confident in our ability to find someone else, usually someone better, monogamy 
  and the old thinking about commitment will be challenged very harshly.”
Oh man. Societal values will always lose out? Women (just women, mind you! Not men, or women and men?) were miserable in marriages because premarital sex was taboo? The lack of premarital sex directly leads to unhappy marriages? Some of these quotes border on the ridiculous. Personally, I'm glad the societal value of "Murder is wrong" hasn't lost out to these dating websites. I'm going to pile on real quick and also point out that commitment is hard. It's a disturbing trend that people can now just not deal with commitment (an important societal need, not just in relationships but in business as well) since sites like these offer them an easy way out.

I'm far from the evangelical Christian right, but there is no denying family values play a part in a functional society. Stable homes and good role models are invaluable to children growing up. Good marriages can demonstrate valuable social skills, such as compromise, respect and as corny as it sounds, love. Such things should never "lose out".

Let's not forget that, as the article mentions, most of these people's goal is to generate repeat users, not create healthy relationships. I'm not denying that online dating can be a great tool, but let's take some of these opinions with a grain of salt.

Re: A Million First Dates

#82
post #43

FWIW, the Portland regulars on /r/OkCupid complain that it's an inversion of the classic pattern everywhere else. Men are apparently in the position of scarcity. NYC OKCers talk about the scourge of "trade ups". Still, living as I do in Perth, this all seems like hearing about the problems of people living on Planet Donuts. Oh, you can't settle down because there are just sooo many choices ? No no, please continue, I…

Weird, from what I've seen male friends who were fairly attractive (over 6 feet tall, blonde) would consistently land with girls that were one to three notches below what they would get "offline." I've attempted to use dating sites on and off several times over the years and barely could get the attention of ugly women. In the end I found it amusing considering the girls I date tend to be models that have appeared in…

physorg is in print now?

Re: A Million First Dates

#83
post #43

FWIW, the Portland regulars on /r/OkCupid complain that it's an inversion of the classic pattern everywhere else. Men are apparently in the position of scarcity. NYC OKCers talk about the scourge of "trade ups". Still, living as I do in Perth, this all seems like hearing about the problems of people living on Planet Donuts. Oh, you can't settle down because there are just sooo many choices ? No no, please continue, I…

Weird, from what I've seen male friends who were fairly attractive (over 6 feet tall, blonde) would consistently land with girls that were one to three notches below what they would get "offline." I've attempted to use dating sites on and off several times over the years and barely could get the attention of ugly women. In the end I found it amusing considering the girls I date tend to be models that have appeared in…

Pug Talk Magazine?

Re: A Million First Dates

#84
post #16

This article is a good read, but this following excerpt is an angle I would love to see a more expanded look into: Indeed, the profit models of many online-dating sites are at cross-purposes with clients who are trying to develop long-term commitments. A permanently paired-off dater, after all, means a lost revenue stream. Explaining the mentality of a typical dating-site executive, Justin Parfitt, a dating entrepren…

OK Cupid's OK Trends blog had an article titled "Why You Should Never Pay For Online Dating", but they removed it after they were acquired by match.com, a paid dating site. You can Google around and find a few copies of the article.

Yes I remember that, and that's a good example...

E-dating has been going on for what seems like forever in the Internet age, but its near-ubiquity is still a relatively new phenomenon. In the short-term and medium-term, it's probably good for dating services to have relationships break up in a timely manner. But successful couples (5+ years and more) are valuable too, because they pass along by word of mouth how happy they are because of their experience with [whateverservice]...and are likely to disparage it (justifiably or not) when the relationship goes sour.

For a dating service to have the cynical goal of creating high turnover seems to me to be a race to the bottom that may end up having negative returns in the long run. Just as Apple clearly can make more money this decade from a customer who has to buy a new computer to replace their 2-year-old unupgradeable one -- compared to a customer whose Mac lasts them through high school and college -- I would say that Apple's current cachet (speaking as a long-time PC user) was highly dependent on the latter situation.

Re: A Million First Dates

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not. Anybody who's tried in real life as well as online, knows what an impact these factors have, especially height, irritatingly given its arbitrariness in western society. I spent months trying online, have tried in real life, parties, bars, you name it for years. I am actually pretty good socially. Believe me, this is not for want of trying. I am not willing to join random clubs to try to meet women, as my…

Allow me to tell you how wrong you are. My roomate is 6'4, broad shoulders, athletic, good looking by any standard, and he is hella funny. People thought for the longest he had plenty girls, but believe me when I say he had his fair share of trouble. Now, this will sound like a lie, but I have no way to prove this to you unless you decide to make a trip to the city of Atlanta at which point I will introduce you to my…

Ugh, that guy sounds gross. I'm sure he's cool in person but if one were to simply follow this strict list of items they could very easily end up turning themselves into a douche bag. Do we have to become someone we hate to attract people we like?

More likely than not there is an element that trumps the others which your friend fails to mention: personally/charisma. Someone who has it just thinks they are "talking" and may not realize the power they have, so they won't mention it in the magic lists. But it seems to be what matters most and is by far the most difficult aspect of oneself to develop, if one doesn't already have a "good" personality naturally.

Re: A Million First Dates

#86

For a certain subset (perhaps minority) of the population, these sites are nothing but a bait-and-switch. And I think dating sites attract many of us (as I am indeed a member of this subset.) I'm talking about people who lack the pre-requisites women require for mate selection which if not fulfilled, no other characteristics typically matter. Firstly - height - if you are significantly below the national average, you…

Found your photo on your Twitter profile. You're a decent looking guy! I have no advice to give, as I'm currently single too. I'm an overweight fellow in San Francisco but have had modest success in meeting women in the last few years. Haven't met anyone that threw a spark though. I mainly use okcupid when looking around.

Point is mainly about confidence I think. When I'm exuding confidence (feeling like a million bucks) I notice women in the street actually smile at me sometimes. When I'm down on myself (more often) that never happens.

Good luck to you.

Re: A Million First Dates

#87
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. You believe you lack pre-requisites women require. Truth is, there are loads of short guys, ugly guys or otherwise challenged guys that get what they want out of dating, whether it's lots of random sleeping around, or a committed relationship, and everything in between. Please don't talk about giving up on relationships. Online dating might actually not be the best choice f…

No, I'm not. Anybody who's tried in real life as well as online, knows what an impact these factors have, especially height, irritatingly given its arbitrariness in western society. I spent months trying online, have tried in real life, parties, bars, you name it for years. I am actually pretty good socially. Believe me, this is not for want of trying. I am not willing to join random clubs to try to meet women, as my…

Question: how often do you actually ask women on dates? I mean unequivocally ask them on a "date"?

Empirically, I would say you are simply wrong. I know a fair number of short men who are successful with women. It's probably something else you are doing: dress, hygiene, posture/eye contact, lack of confidence (and not in a "you have to change who you are/act cocky" type of way.) I'm not asserting anything specific because I don't know you. Being short can hurt ones chances in the dating world, obviously, but do you really think all short guys just go dateless their whole lives? It's a ridiculous assertion.

Re: A Million First Dates

#88
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true in both online and offline dating. My suggestion if you want a far easier time hooking up is to simply get into very good shape. Height, weight, completion, and dress are all vary important in first impressions. But surprisingly weight / fitness is by far the most important.

I would be more than willing to do that, if I believed it was as much of a factor as height/looks/cocky confidence. I actually experimented with this, lost > 55lb in weight, worked really hard, and it made no difference. None. As you can imagine, motivation to do these things is not great these days.

If losing that much weight made no difference your either still significantly over weight, gained no mussel mass, aiming rather high, or something else is wrong.

My honest suggestion is to remove you expectations. Spend a month responding to every profile until you start getting responses you don't have to keep going after that but you need a little signal to start. Then do some A/B testing to see what helps vs. hurts your response rate.

PS: Think of your profile like a resume you get ~5 seconds to catch someones interest.

Re: A Million First Dates

#89
One question that's come up for me a number of times in the past 2 years or so is "how permanent does a healthy relationship need to be?" Traditional values suggest that "'til death do us part" is the desired level of permanence, but as a society (even preceding online dating) we've been moving away from that idea. More specifically, it used to be somewhat taboo for a widow to remarry, but now it's almost expected that a young widow will eventually find another spouse.

As our expected lifespan grows, are the costs and benefits of fully committing to a single person changing? As far as kids are concerned, you want a marriage to last long enough to get the kids to a certain degree of autonomy, but is that level changing too (which is interesting, because it might seem that kids are taking longer to gain autonomy compared to a hundred years ago).

But we all expect to become grandparents. This is clearly beyond the point where you need to commit to a spouse for childhood reasons. Is our changing environment enough to justify an expectation that marriage should no longer be permanent?

Re: A Million First Dates

#90
post #33

For a certain subset (perhaps minority) of the population, these sites are nothing but a bait-and-switch. And I think dating sites attract many of us (as I am indeed a member of this subset.) I'm talking about people who lack the pre-requisites women require for mate selection which if not fulfilled, no other characteristics typically matter. Firstly - height - if you are significantly below the national average, you…

You should really try a pay site, OKC in my experience has just been for hookups. People are way more judgemental there. Also I would think a dating site where you could search for shorter girls would be helpful than real life, no?

I disagree utterly. There's a significant number of people looking for real relationships on OKC -- you just need to find out whether the other person is on the same page as you ASAP (profile, messages, first few dates).

Thanks to OKC I went on several first dates, which led to two exclusive relationships (at different times, of course!), one of which resulted in my marriage. I also found that OKC gives greater flexibility in self-expression and how you discover others.

Online dating is a bit of a numbers game, so I feel that it's poor advice to steer someone away from a dating pool. Maybe adding a pay site to one's online dating efforts (at least for a trial period) would be a better strategy.

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