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The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

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Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#81
post #10

The broad and vague ruling that enables the TSA to do anything they want in airports[0] can (and will) be applied to just about any public event. It's probably just a matter of a few years or so before the TSA is searching us at virtually all public gatherings. And there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. [0] http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/20/how-...

exercise your 2nd amendment rights

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#82
post #76
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline should read "everywhere _in the US_". Your comment should read "all public gatherings _in the US_". There is indeed something you can do about it. You can go live in a country where there is no TSA. (This has the added benefit of your productive energies no longer helping fund the TSA, as well, for incomes below about $92,000.) A dozen countries have a similar standard of living as the US, and many of th…

You can go live in a country where there is no TSA. This is possible/easy only if: 1. You have enough knowledge, skill sets to get a job in the "dozen countries" 2. Or, have enough money to start a business 3. Don't have family commitments, kids etc 4. The U.S is still the best place to be, if you are in tech and few other sectors Also, it amounts to giving up. What if you relocate to a new country, and the same thin…

> The U.S is still the best place to be, if you are in tech and few other sectors

Are there any other places that come close and that are more free or at least less corrupt?

Can someone comment on tech salaries in Hong Kong, for example?

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None, as the ionizing radiation and sexual assault at airports has clearly and unambiguously illustrated. Your notion of vast public dissent is a fantasy.

I'm not condoning the TSA in any way (I also think it is a deplorable organization), but as a biologist I feel compelled to state that you receive vastly more ionizing radiation looking out the window of your plane than you do in the one of the TSA scanners. Again, not condoning the invasion of privacy for security theater, but the "threat" of ionizing radiation is almost always over-stated.

How about with this model scanner? http://www.mikrondigital.com/uploads/media/RadPRO_SECURPASS....

High Penetration Model: (500/y/subject) < 2.0 uSv (0.2 mR) / per scan

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Ghandi-style peaceful protest would fare better than what the occupy movement did. I went to the one in London and saw that the protesters were following police orders to, for example, stay in one place. This is not the way to make your voice heard and it's not what Ghandi did. You can have an active, non-violent protest. This entails disobeying any and all orders from the authorities (e.g. blocking major roads and…

> blocking access to police and government vehicles, using smoke bombs - anything which causes chaos but does not physically hurt anyone Do you really recommend becoming a terrorist in the US right now?

That's sabotage and civil disobedience. If nobody is harmed, how is that terrorism?

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not condoning the TSA in any way (I also think it is a deplorable organization), but as a biologist I feel compelled to state that you receive vastly more ionizing radiation looking out the window of your plane than you do in the one of the TSA scanners. Again, not condoning the invasion of privacy for security theater, but the "threat" of ionizing radiation is almost always over-stated.

How about with this model scanner? http://www.mikrondigital.com/uploads/media/RadPRO_SECURPASS.... High Penetration Model: (500/y/subject) < 2.0 uSv (0.2 mR) / per scan

I feel a little silly linking an XKCD image, but it's accurate and relevant:

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

An average human receives 10 uSv during an average day from background radiation, and 40 uSv on a cross-country flight. Living in Denver, CO for a year will expose you to 1800 uSv.

Some more dosages for various routine living situations and medical procedures (note, they are in mSv, not uSv): http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Rad...

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#86
post #47
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There is indeed something you can do about it. You can go live in a country where there is no TSA" In other words, give up? I find it ludicrous (and terrifying) when statements like this are made. This isn't some web-app whose terms of service you don't like, it's a nation state . People throughout history took to the streets to win freedom/voting right/etc. If no-one's left fighting back then expect to get trampl…

> This isn't some web-app whose terms of service you don't like, it's a nation state. People throughout history took to the streets to win freedom/voting right/etc. Historically, it was much harder and more expensive to move your entire life to another country (and maintain your social and economic ties). People were vastly better off staying put. Today, that's simply not the case. I moved across an ocean to avoid pa…

> I moved across an ocean to avoid participating in the US economy in a positive way (insofar as that is practically possible being a denizen of the Internet) for under $1500 and all while maintaining my personal and professional connections to those still resident there.

The education that gives you the skills that allow you entry to another country cost significantly more than $1,500.

Don't you still need to file tax returns in the US?

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#87
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

targeted to be blown up Mainly by the FBI, based on that wikipedia article. FBI: Hey, do you want to blow something up? Terrorist: OK FBI: Here's a bomb, go blow something up. Terrorist: OK [click] FBI: You're under arrest! Sure, the guy committed a crime, but was I wouldn't say the event was "targeted to be blown up". It was a sting operation. A small probability threat was amplified by the FBI for the purpose of ma…

When you read the actual indictments and court transcripts in cases like this, the would-be terrorists turn out to be nothing like the passive actor you hypothesize here, but rather display a fair degree of initiative; they have typically come to the FBI's attention because people around them are alarmed by their aspirations and report them to law enforcement. There are tough legal questions about where the borderlin…

I didn't say the man was innocent. What I said was that the event the parent poster referred to was not really targeted by terrorists, but rather by an FBI sting operation. This means that the event was never in any real danger, and using it to justify expanding TSA security theater is not valid.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about with this model scanner? http://www.mikrondigital.com/uploads/media/RadPRO_SECURPASS.... High Penetration Model: (500/y/subject) < 2.0 uSv (0.2 mR) / per scan

I feel a little silly linking an XKCD image, but it's accurate and relevant: http://xkcd.com/radiation/ An average human receives 10 uSv during an average day from background radiation, and 40 uSv on a cross-country flight. Living in Denver, CO for a year will expose you to 1800 uSv. Some more dosages for various routine living situations and medical procedures (note, they are in mSv, not uSv): http://users.rcn.com/j…

I get that and I appreciate the additional info on radiation exposures (I had not seen the 2nd link you posted before).

I was trying to imply that the argument of "it's not that bad" can quickly become moot considering that imaging companies have more powerful scanners standing by for purchase & use. It really becomes a question of how much is too much? And, for what benefit am I being dosed with an extra amount of radiation?

Unfortunately, most travelers are unaware that they are even being dosed with radiation by a scanner. No doubt, the TSA would like to keep that fact hidden.

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel a little silly linking an XKCD image, but it's accurate and relevant: http://xkcd.com/radiation/ An average human receives 10 uSv during an average day from background radiation, and 40 uSv on a cross-country flight. Living in Denver, CO for a year will expose you to 1800 uSv. Some more dosages for various routine living situations and medical procedures (note, they are in mSv, not uSv): http://users.rcn.com/j…

I get that and I appreciate the additional info on radiation exposures (I had not seen the 2nd link you posted before). I was trying to imply that the argument of "it's not that bad" can quickly become moot considering that imaging companies have more powerful scanners standing by for purchase & use. It really becomes a question of how much is too much? And, for what benefit am I being dosed with an extra amount of r…

Yeah, I agree that it is a slippery slope. The difference between their two models right now is the difference between someone throwing dust at you, vs throwing grains of rice. Neither hurt...but it could quickly escalate to throwing pennies or bricks.

And for basically no value-add, since it's the TSA.

All in all, I think the TSA is awful and would love them gone. At the very least there should be regulation on the max amount of radiation that is allowed by a machine (not sure if this exists).

Re: The TSA wants to be everywhere in 2013 - here's why we shouldn't let it

#90

After an event I was at was targeted to be blown up, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot ) I have changed my views on anti-terrorist teams at events and mass-gatherings. I do find it silly, however, that these teams are supposedly a devision of the "Transit Security Administration".

The FBI made sure nothing happened here, they seem to know what they're doing. They should be commended for keeping this situation well in hand.

The TSA is not the same thing. Their security theater would've done nothing to prevent someone from driving up a truck bomb and setting it off.

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