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Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#481

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #414
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

It's not really "standard junk" though. Imperial measures are standardized human units. I have a foot that is about a foot, a knuckle that is about an inch, a stride that is about a yard. One day carrying a gallon of water a decent distance I realized that this was about the max amount the average person could carry comfortably over distance. That is what kills me about the metric system. It seems to intentionally ig…

> Imperial measures are standardized human units

As someone raised metric, Imperial measures are just weird, pointless and baroque. It is nothing more than a question of what you are used to.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#482

Post by mdesq »

jacquesm wrote: post #330
brudgers wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bunch of fictions. Americans with wrenches tend to have both SAE and metric sizes. The thread pitches of metric bolts differs from SAE standards, and drain pipes are sized on inside diameter not outside because ID is relevant to capacity. Tape measures have standard units because they're standard where tape measures are used - in construction. Where it makes sense, metric is common, e.g. soft drink bottles.

> This is a bunch of fictions. Not really, those are all pretty practical examples. I've dealt with each and every one of those. > Americans with wrenches tend to have both SAE and metric sizes. The metric ones will be brand new if they have them, the imperial ones will be well worn. > The thread pitches of metric bolts differs from SAE standards Indeed they do. In the EU Ford vehicles are all metric unless they were…

I used to work as a professional mechanic and the auto industry used to be split, with American brands using SAE and imports using metric. This was all changing fast in the 90s such that pretty much everything is metric on cars these days. Still, there are a few exceptions here and there.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#483

Post by ars »

ahlatimer wrote: post #318
blhack wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? Every hardware store I've ever been to has a section for metric. Our lab, for instance, keeps a supply of bolts, and as far as I remember /only/ has metric. Also every socket set I've ever used has a metric and standard set. Why would you care about road signs? And why would you care about a tape measure that is /only/ in metric? The second one seems kindof silly. The on…

Or if you happen to ask anyone who works on a vehicle that isn't from one of the American manufacturers. My Toyota used all metric, AFAIK, and all of my motorcycles have used metric. I can't say I've ever even used the standard set of tools that came with my toolset (which had both metric and standard).

My Ford car is all metric as well.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#484

Post by tedunangst »

Nitramp wrote: post #457
tedunangst wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One third quart = 2/3 cup. I have a 2/3 measuring cup in my kitchen. I've never heard anyone say a third gallon, but just convert to ounces. 128 / 3 = 48. That's 3 pints, btw. Of all the "math is hard" arguments, I think the kitchen measures are the least convincing. Everything is a power of two. You can halve or double a recipe without even thinking.

128 / 3 = 48 Come again? This doesn't quite look like sarcasm, or did you want to prove the OP's point? Or maybe this is just an explanation for the taste of British food...

oops, I think I should slink away quietly now...

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#485

Post by jcoby »

jacquesm wrote: post #333
VLM wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone else on HN work on their own car? My ancient unbreakable domestic mfgr '97 GM car is all metric. Right off the top of my head the oil drain plug is a M12-1.75 bolt. I just replaced the battery two weeks ago, all metric (I think they were M10 bolts? I was in a huge hurry). Seemingly everything on my GM car is metric, and it was built 15 years ago, I can only imagine how metric everything in auto-land is no…

That would make good sense. What about things like wheel nuts, hitch attachements and so on? The ford I had had a surprising amount of imperial on it about a decade ago. Presumably under the hood and inside the engine it was all metric though.

Completely depends on the car. Wife has a 2006 Mariner, it has 19mm wheel nuts. My '91 Explorer is 5/8" or 9/16" or so (I don't remember). I also have a BMW that's 100% metric of course. And a '68 mustang that's 100% SAE.

The explorer is metric in a lot of places. The engine is SAE since it's based on the 302 which was originally designed in the early '60s. Pretty much anything that was designed from the mid 80s or later will be 100% metric hardware unless it needs to work with something that isn't. And even then it'll will sometimes be metric until it hits the non-metric piece. For example, the Tremec T-5 transmission is metric but mates up to the Ford 302 which is SAE.

So basically, it's usually metric except when it's not.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#486

Post by xxpor »

Torgo wrote: post #476
benholmen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that?

According to: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.htm "the National Highway System Designation Act of 1995 prohibited the use of Federal-aid highway funds to convert existing signs or purchase new signs with metric units." It appears from my reading of the law that the prohibition expired in 2000.

Ha interesting. Didn't know abou that expiration.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#487

Post by ComputerGuru »

mpyne wrote: post #471
ComputerGuru wrote: post #453

Everything else aside, can someone explain to me the obsession with fractions (w/out common denominators, even!) in the imperial system? I love metric, but I have no problem using the imperial system for my work - however, the fact that all objects made for the imperial system are built on fractions makes it impossible to work with. There is no 0.1" there's only 1/8. There is no 0.15", there's only 5/32. etc. Given t…

Fractional measures are useful when you often have to sub-divide a thing, but you are right in that they make the problem of comparing two things more difficult. But with that in mind the answer to your question is that when the scales were first devised in the first place that it was apparently more important to be able to evenly split things up easily without grade-school arithmetic than it was to be able to compar…

But why not just use /64 or /32 for everything?

3/32" vs 4/32" is win-win compared to 3/32" vs 1/8" or .09375" vs .125"

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#488

Post by vacri »

jacquesm wrote: post #259
tokenadult wrote: post #198

From the petitions.whitehouse.gov petition kindly submitted for comment here: "The United States is one of the few countries left in the world who still have not converted to using the Metric System as a standardized system of measurement. Instead of going along with what the rest of the world uses, we stubbornly still adhere to using the imprecise Imperial Unit - despite the fact that practically every other country…

That's a typical case of theory and practice. Yes, in theory the US is a country that supports metric. In practice, go and ask anybody in the country outside of the military for the following: - An M10 bolt - a 16mm wrench to drive it with - a 3 meter long 50 mm od pvc drainpipe - a tape-measure that measures only in metric - a highway sign that is posted in km And so on. See how many people can point you to any of t…

Oddly enough, highway signs in km can be found for about 20km north of the border town of Nogales, Arizona.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#489

Post by vacri »

tokenadult wrote: post #198

From the petitions.whitehouse.gov petition kindly submitted for comment here: "The United States is one of the few countries left in the world who still have not converted to using the Metric System as a standardized system of measurement. Instead of going along with what the rest of the world uses, we stubbornly still adhere to using the imprecise Imperial Unit - despite the fact that practically every other country…

How are laws passed in the US when it comes to weights and measures? Are they primarily passed in metric or imperial? That right there will be your answer, regardless of whether some old law merely adds an official system.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#490

Post by jhales »

Another petition which may be more effecitve would be directed at the more rational/scientifically minded people at Google (in as much as they don't have Rick Santorum on their pay roll) to rename nexus 4/7/10 to be in terms of metric units not inches. That would may lead to a very rapid comfort with metric sizes for a large and influential chunk of the population.

This would also avoid the potentially unpleasant comparison to those who hope to eradicate Spanish by demand English be the state language.

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