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Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#311

Post by sakopov »

eru wrote: post #299
sakopov wrote: post #200

I was born in Russia and used the metric system until i moved to the US. Imperial system is so archaic it's amusing to see a developed nation use it. A few centuries ago Russians used to measure weight in "handfuls" and short distances in "elbows." (scratch that, it's "cubits") When only a fraction of the population had any sort of education, it was easier for everyone to understand an anatomical measurement. Eh, som…

> [...] and short distances in "elbows." Cubit might be the word you were looking for.

Ah, Yes! Sorry, that translation was literal :)

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#312

Post by pragmatic »

veidr wrote: post #114

It's obviously a great idea, and obviously (to Americans) unlikely to happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this forum. Does anybody else from America remember being taught the metric system in public elementary school, and being told that we'd be switching to it over the next few years? I was taught this around second grade (1981), I think based on the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

"that was effectively stymied by the US auto industry."

Do you have a source for that? Not implying its false.

Ironically if you've worked on an auto built from the 90's (maybe even 80's (man I'm old)) onward, you'll find a confusing mix of standard and metric fasteners often within the same components - doors, etc.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#313

Post by bradleyland »

jacquesm wrote: post #259
tokenadult wrote: post #198

From the petitions.whitehouse.gov petition kindly submitted for comment here: "The United States is one of the few countries left in the world who still have not converted to using the Metric System as a standardized system of measurement. Instead of going along with what the rest of the world uses, we stubbornly still adhere to using the imprecise Imperial Unit - despite the fact that practically every other country…

That's a typical case of theory and practice. Yes, in theory the US is a country that supports metric. In practice, go and ask anybody in the country outside of the military for the following: - An M10 bolt - a 16mm wrench to drive it with - a 3 meter long 50 mm od pvc drainpipe - a tape-measure that measures only in metric - a highway sign that is posted in km And so on. See how many people can point you to any of t…

Some of your examples are good, but many aren't based in reality for the US consumer. A lot of consumer goods are manufactured overseas, then imported to the US. The manufacturers of these goods rarely create custom versions that rely on inch-based hardware. The ISO nomenclature isn't very common, but 16mm wrenches are very common. Pretty much any US resident who wants to work on their car or assemble products without using the supplied stamped wrenches has to have both imperial and and metric tools. I've got a whole tool chest full of that mix in wrenches, sockets, and hex drivers.

When it comes to highways and tape measures, you're right though. A tape measure is most commonly used in carpentry, which is almost entirely imperial. Our cars all have speedometers that display MPH in large type, so I don't see that changing without some mandate.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#314

Post by huherto »

randomdata wrote: post #77
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

I was raised metric, but still find utility in the imperial system under some circumstances. I use my anatomy to measure things all the time while out on the farm, for instance. You could say step off 914cms, but I think 30 feet makes more sense in the context since you are literally counting your steps. If you have precise measuring tools at your disposal, then I'm inclined to agree though.

A small anecdote. My father was very accurate and fast to measure distance in meters using his steps. Very useful in construction. You would not use centimeters in this use case.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#315

Post by dcminter »

decasteve wrote: post #243
graeme wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. In Canada, we still use imperial measures for body height and body weight, and many older folks still talk in miles and fahrenheit. But everyone adjusted to metric for less personal weights and measures, and other abstract measures. Pretty good compromise, I think.

Another Canadian here (Maritimer). With temperature I find many people talk about the weather in Celsius but the temperature of their homes/thermostats in Fahrenheit. Swimming pools also measured in Fahrenheit. Gym weights, except in Olympic lifting competition, everyone talks lbs. While in the UK I noticed everyone measures weight in stone (1 stone = 14 lbs).

I used to think in stone. But I don't need to know my weight very often and when I do it's usually for ski bindings at european resorts - so now I find myself thinking in kilograms.

The only non-metric unit that I think in now is miles - and there are obvious safety/legal problems in switching our speed limit road signs to kilometers.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#316

Post by tolmasky »

Kylekramer wrote: post #281
acangiano wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better visual evidence: http://signword.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/423399_101506340...

Pretty weak argument for Celsius. Why should people care that the boiling and freezing points are simple? That is almost irrelevant for the most common uses of temperature reporting. People care about the ambient outside temperature (which Fahrenheit seems optimized for), not the effect it has on the state of one particular compound.

Yeah, never understood the "problem" with Fahrenheit. When I ask people to tell me why Celsius is better, many will tell me because its "decimal", and then I point out to them it is no more decimal than Fahrenheit, there are no "kilodegrees". They will then point out the water freezing/boiling, as if they regularly have to set that temperature to accomplish that (you don't, you just put water in the freezer or a kettle on the stove). Celcius is annoying from a practical perspective because you have less degrees to deal with in every day temperatures, and in Fahrenheit 0 is "cold" and 100 is "hot" (vs like -20 to 40).

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#318

Post by ahlatimer »

blhack wrote: post #293
jacquesm wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a typical case of theory and practice. Yes, in theory the US is a country that supports metric. In practice, go and ask anybody in the country outside of the military for the following: - An M10 bolt - a 16mm wrench to drive it with - a 3 meter long 50 mm od pvc drainpipe - a tape-measure that measures only in metric - a highway sign that is posted in km And so on. See how many people can point you to any of t…

Have you ever been inside of a hardware store? Every hardware store I've ever been to has a section for metric. Our lab, for instance, keeps a supply of bolts, and as far as I remember /only/ has metric. Also every socket set I've ever used has a metric and standard set. Why would you care about road signs? And why would you care about a tape measure that is /only/ in metric? The second one seems kindof silly. The on…

Or if you happen to ask anyone who works on a vehicle that isn't from one of the American manufacturers. My Toyota used all metric, AFAIK, and all of my motorcycles have used metric. I can't say I've ever even used the standard set of tools that came with my toolset (which had both metric and standard).

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#319

Post by beagle3 »

Kylekramer wrote: post #281
acangiano wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better visual evidence: http://signword.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/423399_101506340...

Pretty weak argument for Celsius. Why should people care that the boiling and freezing points are simple? That is almost irrelevant for the most common uses of temperature reporting. People care about the ambient outside temperature (which Fahrenheit seems optimized for), not the effect it has on the state of one particular compound.

Fahrenheit is not really optimized for that either. It's basically optimized for "still positive in the coldest days in Denamrk some 200 years ago, and less than 100 in the warmest days". (Seriously)

If you live in e.g. San Diego, it goes from ~60 to ~90. If you live in NYC, it goes from ~25 to ~100. That's not more optimized than Celsius, which goes from ~15 to ~30 and ~-4 to ~35 respectively.

However, when in NYC, you know that negative celsius means black-ice out in the street; zero celsius mostly means snow, and positive celsius means non of the above.

Also, you know that 1kcal that you get from food (or Con Edison) will heat one liter of water by one degree celsius (and a quart is a good approximation for a liter, if you're still in NYC ...)

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#320

Post by huherto »

mosburger wrote: post #187

One argument some people make against switching away from imperial units - it acts as sort of an artificial trade barrier for foreign competition. It costs non-domestic manufacturers more to package their products for distribution in the United States, making it sort of a "tariff" for foreign goods that international trade agreements can't touch.

But it works both ways. It is a "tariff" when you want to export.
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