Make the Metric system the standard in the United States • Hacker News Board

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#201

Post by dmit » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:33 PM UTC

dickbasedregex wrote: post #49

At the risk of being lumped in with the negative/unhelpful/HN-is-on-the-decline comment crowd, and I hate naysaying here but... Seriously? 1) If you haven't seen enough of these White House Polls go by yet (and there is a never ending list of inanity, for example: http://www.modernman.com/12-dumbest-whitehouse-petitions/ ) let me clue you in. They do nothing. Nothing. No one reads them. Just go back to wishing on a s…

"President Andrew Jackson in the main foyer of his White House had a big block of cheese. The block of cheese was huge — over two tons — and it was there for any and all who might be hungry. Jackson wanted the White House to belong to the people, so from time to time, he opened his doors to those who wished an audience.

It is in the spirit of Andrew Jackson that I, from time to time, ask senior staff to have face-to-face meetings with those people representing organizations who have a difficult time getting our attention. I know the more jaded among you see this as something rather beneath you. But I assure you that listening to the voices of passionate Americans is beneath no one, and surely not the people's servants."

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#202

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #145

Most of the comments in this thread are talking about the units for personal height, weight, local road signs or for the weather forecast. Those are by far the least important things to be worried about. All of those things are local and there is no carrying cost for them. There would be a cost to change all those signs and forecasts - for no real gain. However, dimensions of physical goods are a constant recurring c…

THe 'sets of tools' argument is kind of spurious. I already have a box full of wrenches; I'd need some more in the box. Nobody argues 'lets get rid of 5/32 bolts, so I can get rid of that wrench'.

Its the mental effort to rationalize them that is the real cost. Lets see, slightly larger than 1/4 - is it 7mm? or 8? or 9/32?

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#203

Post by dalke » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #148

rohern wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are constantly needlessly introducing math across all of our industries that have international partners by keeping our current system. Your point to which I was responding was that you feel it is more natural to measure in units of feet. I was pointing out to you that you can make the same measurement in a convenient unit in the metric system. We can have ease of use in both cases with the metric system. But it d…

Communicating the number of steps to, say, position your tractor in the field is a long way from having international partners and dual labelling. It is still not clear to me why one would introduce the metric system into the specific case when the simplest form, the length of your foot, will do perfectly.

My foot is not one foot long, so your customary measure and mine don't match. One of us will need to convert, and we'll need a conversion table for each person.

Unless all of the people you deal with have nearly the same foot size, it's easier to deal with a single reference measure. But hey, if you and your mates want to say that the tractor is 30 feet, 20 cubits, 10 yards, 5 fathoms, or 1.8 rods away, then more power to you.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#204

Post by jeza » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:37 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #120

stdbrouw wrote: post #78

I moved from Belgium to the US last year, and one of the things that surprised me was that metric measures actually see a fair amount of use in the States. It makes a convoluted system even more weird, but it's also just plain fascinating. 2L bottles of coke and 9mm bullets, miles except when people suddenly switch to kilometers, 50 meter pools and 5K jogging runs but a 120 yard football field, 2 oz shaving cream but…

To be fair, non-metric units are also use worldwide in some specific fields. In aeronautics, height is in feet. In a boat, distance are nautic miles (not even the same miles as Americans on the road). Quick quiz: what's the diagonal size of your laptop screen in centimeters? Your mobile phone? So it doesn't matter if you use completely unrelated metrics for different things. When you want to buy a laptop you know how…

I wonder if the Gimli glider incident had anything to do with imperial units being the preferred unit in the US. In any case I think the aviation industry would be well across this issue by now, given they would have to deal with conversion all the time on international flights between the US and metric countries. There is the benefit of hindsight with the Gimli incident, so the same mistakes need not be repeated.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#205

Post by RivieraKid » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:37 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #134

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian, I'd be inclined to call it the "every other industrialized liberal democracy on earth is better" mantra. Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works . The US is a notable outlier, and the various comparative social and economic indicators are pretty damning evidence that the continued American insistence on an 18th century…

> Countries tend to converge on an optimal balance of individual liberties and social protections because it measurably works. That's just utter nonsense. What measurement are you optimizing for? What makes you think that moving the US to the left moves it closer to, say, Germany, instead of closer to, say, Brazil, India, and Mexico (which is what I think will happen)? And even if it did move it closer to Germany, I…

Society should optimize for happiness. It's not measurable, but you can estimate it (for example you can estimate that average German is happier than average citizen of North Korea). My vague definition happiness is this: Let's say you must choose between 2 states of mind and you'll spend the next hour in the selected one. Before your choice, you can try each of them by clicking some button. The one that you choose has higher "happiness quotient".

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#206

Post by geon » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

gshubert17 wrote: post #194

Permit wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they'll show you why it's a much more practical unit for what they do. Why? Why is it more practical? How is it better other than being more familiar? It blows me away that people can make the argument as it being "better".

One nautical mile is very nearly the length of one minute of arc at the earth's surface.

Wouldn't that make the arc-minute the practical unit?

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#207

Post by DanBC » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

Permit wrote: post #171

ubernostrum wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to get dismissive about having multiple units, until you run into the contexts where they really are useful. Following up the example in one of my other comments: adopt the meter and the kilometer, or the foot and the kilofoot, and it won't matter to navigators, because they'll still use the nautical mile unless you literally put a gun to their heads, and if you do put a gun to their heads they'll show you…

>they'll show you why it's a much more practical unit for what they do. Why? Why is it more practical? How is it better other than being more familiar? It blows me away that people can make the argument as it being "better".

Why does it matter if people are using "one nautical mile" or "1852 metres"?

(http://metricviews.org.uk/2010/01/why-do-nautical-miles-ling...)

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#208

Post by jamesjguthrie » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:39 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #170

jamesjguthrie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example go have a look at http://gordonramsaysrecipes.com/ which hosts a collection of Ramsay's receipes. All in tablespoons, teaspoons and cups.

That's an American web-site. His books are in metric. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gordon-Ramsays-Ultimate-Cookery-Cour... Click "search inside." Everything is in grams. edit: That web-site isn't even associated with the chief. It is just some fan site. Here is a legit web-site and it is all in grams: http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/chefs/gordon-ramsay/go...

> Click "search inside." Everything is in grams.

There's loads of references in that book to knobs of butter and tablespoon/teaspoon measurements.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#209

Post by ArchD » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #74

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

"Familiar" is a bit off target because it implies that use is a matter of individual choice. The system is embedded in standards, such as SAE. It is embedded in industries such as construction. It is embedded into statutes, regulations, and deeds for real property. Yes, the system is familiar, but wiping the slate clean and starting anew is not a feature of stable democracies.

Why can't the existing code be modified by simply replacing old units with metric ones denoting the same quantity? If necessary, use a high level of precision in the expressions, and over time, have an initiative to slowly and gradually normalize those quantities to simpler numbers.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#210

Post by TylerE » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 2:41 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #104

There's a couple of things you'd want to consider converting to metric: long distances, short distances/dimensions, volumes, weights, and temperature come to mind. Long distances: swap out a bunch of highway signs, consider that 60mph (a mile a minute) ~= 100km/h, not too hard on people but a lot of signage needs to change. Feasible. Volumes: people are used enough to 2-liter bottles of soda, expect the 3.78 liter mi…

The devil is in the details.

In the US, all speed limits are in 5 mph increments.

So, let's say you convert your 60mph limit to 100kph (Really 96.5). 70mph is 112.65kph. Do you round down to 110, or up to 115 or 120?

If you round down, congratulations, you just cut the speed difference between a rural highway and interstate essentially in half, as a "true" 17kph difference is only 10.