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Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

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Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#161

Post by geon »

ubernostrum wrote: post #121
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

Before we start in... let's remember that in most contexts, the units don't matter. What matters is picking a system and sticking to it. (and that there still is no such thing as a "one size fits all" system of units)

> the units don't matter. What matters is picking a system and sticking to it

That is exactly the problem with the imperial system. You have multiple units for the same thing, and when they are multiples of each other, it is in base 12.

You could settle on feet and have kilofeet and millifeet, and you'd have a sensible system (apart from being incompatible with the rest of the world).

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#162

Post by jeza »

OriginalSyn wrote: post #135
goodcanadian wrote: post #103

Only vaguely relevant, but I grew up in a rural area in Canada which caused me to learn a strange set of units. For me, highway distances are measured in kilometres, but country roads are measured in miles. Groceries are priced per kilogram, but my weight is in pounds. I readily swap inches and centimetres for measuring small sizes and distances (sometimes on the same project). I am more comfortable with Celsius, but…

I would hazard a guess that we're roughly the same age because I grew up with the same mixture of units but I think it's less to do with growing up in a rural area than the fact that your parents and grandparents were educated on imperial units and even though metric was standard by the time you were born, the imperial system was still ingrained in your elders and some of that nomenclature was passed on to you. When…

I grew up in Australia with metric, with parents and grandparents who grew up with imperial units. Though it seems things happened differently in Australia as my parents (and possibly grandparents too) converted to thinking in metric at least most of the time. That said, it's still reasonably common to hear people quoting their personal height in feet and inches. Even then, most people born post-metrification don't really have a grasp of imperial units (the exception tends to be people who have spent time in the US).

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#163

Post by [deleted] »

davvid wrote: post #86

I think most engineers would naturally support this idea. The reality is that doing something like this is pretty tough because the current system has so much weight. It's akin to asking a company to abandon a perfectly functioning legacy software system just so that someone can rewrite it. My dad was an engineer with Caltrans and he told me about how California was ready to make the switch. It was going to be a grad…

[deleted]

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#164

Post by ndonnellan »

krschultz wrote: post #145

Most of the comments in this thread are talking about the units for personal height, weight, local road signs or for the weather forecast. Those are by far the least important things to be worried about. All of those things are local and there is no carrying cost for them. There would be a cost to change all those signs and forecasts - for no real gain. However, dimensions of physical goods are a constant recurring c…

I agree the examples are irrelevant. A better example (from my experience) would be the oil/gas/chemical industry where you have millions of miles, oops kilometers, of pipes, uncountable valves, fittings, sensors, vessels, etc. What's the counterpart to a 6", sch 60 pipe? You definitely do not just convert to metric!

My favorite nonsensical (not-quite-non-dimensional unit)? Heat rate: MMBtu per MWh

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#165

Post by allerratio »

dphnx wrote: post #15
yarrel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imperial is very visible in the UK (for road instances and for beer glasses in particular) but the country is pretty much metric now and has been for decades.

Funny you should mention beer – I've noticed an increasing tendency for pint glasses to be marked "568ml". Milk also doesn't come in pints any more, but does come in 568ml and 1 litre varieties. Still, as a nation we ask for and think of our beer and milk in pints.

In Franconia you still ask for a "Seidla" which traditionally is 535ml but you get 500ml. In Bavaria you still ask for a "Maß" and you get 1000ml instead of 1069ml.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#166

Post by ubernostrum »

geon wrote: post #161
ubernostrum wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before we start in... let's remember that in most contexts, the units don't matter. What matters is picking a system and sticking to it. (and that there still is no such thing as a "one size fits all" system of units)

> the units don't matter. What matters is picking a system and sticking to it That is exactly the problem with the imperial system. You have multiple units for the same thing, and when they are multiples of each other, it is in base 12. You could settle on feet and have kilofeet and millifeet, and you'd have a sensible system (apart from being incompatible with the rest of the world).

It's easy to get dismissive about having multiple units, until you run into the contexts where they really are useful. Following up the example in one of my other comments: adopt the meter and the kilometer, or the foot and the kilofoot, and it won't matter to navigators, because they'll still use the nautical mile unless you literally put a gun to their heads, and if you do put a gun to their heads they'll show you why it's a much more practical unit for what they do.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#167

Post by angdis »

veidr wrote: post #114

It's obviously a great idea, and obviously (to Americans) unlikely to happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this forum. Does anybody else from America remember being taught the metric system in public elementary school, and being told that we'd be switching to it over the next few years? I was taught this around second grade (1981), I think based on the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

I actually remember when the metric system was introduced in elementary schools.

Looking back, there was far too much emphasis on getting all prefixes and their relationships memorized: micro, milli, centi, deci, hecto, kilo, mega. And virtually no emphasis on developing an intuitive "metric" feel for the common quantities in everyday life.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#168

Post by joezydeco »

codva wrote: post #159
veidr wrote: post #114

It's obviously a great idea, and obviously (to Americans) unlikely to happen in the lifetime of anybody reading this forum. Does anybody else from America remember being taught the metric system in public elementary school, and being told that we'd be switching to it over the next few years? I was taught this around second grade (1981), I think based on the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

Yep - I remember being told in 4th or 5th grade (which would be 1975ish) that we all had to learn the metric system because the country was converting. And here we are 35 years later...

I'm about the same age and went through the same education, although it was probably a bit earlier.

It did come in handy when taking science courses in high school. Everything we did was in metric, from chemistry to physics. I don't know if American high schools ever taught things like physics in English measurement in years prior, that must have been a nightmare.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#169

Post by yk »

aidos wrote: post #127
xefer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, although I know the obvious benefits of metric, I still prefer imperial simply because of its messiness. I realize the system is archaic, etc., but I still like that connection, as attenuated as it may be, to our ancient past. Use metric for all scientific purposes, etc., but keep that connection to the natural world. I suppose I like it in the same way I prefer natural languages to some artificial lang…

In the year MMXIII is sentiment really a good reason to continue using an inefficient system :)

At least a better reason than in the year MXMIX (or in the year MMXLII :)

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#170

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

jamesjguthrie wrote: post #105
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We use cup measures for flour, sugar etc in cooking. We do? My cookbooks are in metric units. In fact I own no books that use "cups."

As an example go have a look at http://gordonramsaysrecipes.com/ which hosts a collection of Ramsay's receipes. All in tablespoons, teaspoons and cups.

That's an American web-site. His books are in metric.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gordon-Ramsays-Ultimate-Cookery-Cour...

Click "search inside." Everything is in grams.

edit: That web-site isn't even associated with the chief. It is just some fan site. Here is a legit web-site and it is all in grams: http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/chefs/gordon-ramsay/go...

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