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PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

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Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#71

> “Slop kiddies found the only hypervisor bug left, which I had also found a while ago, and decided to report to Sony,” the modder said on social media. “I asked them to at least wait for GTA 6 to come out so that people would have the opportunity to legally purchase the game and also enjoy linux. They agreed to wait, but not a day passed and they decided to waste it instead.” If one user could have found this using…

> If one user could have found this using AI. Then I would imagine anyone else could have found it.

People are still fixated on using AI to produce code (to reduce salary costs/dev time) rather than using it to audit bugs in one own's code, which they are better at.

The latter has "always" been obvious to me.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#72

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. Same thing did happen to many work places. People at all levels proxy questions through LLMs and don't even bother to read/trim/edit the response. Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

> Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

Wasn't it always?

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#73

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people

It is insane just how miserable the experience of FOSS hardware hacking in public is.

The expectation does not even the slightest match reality. You'd think "ah yes many eyes meaning all bugs get shallow", but instead you get worst of XDA-Developers and toxic wastelands where no sane person even answers anymore.

But this predates LLMs and was as miserable as it is now before as well.

In fact, I might even argue that LLMs made this _better_, because you can now avoid the "opening up in hopes of finding 1 helpful person below 99 annoying ones" through simple GPU compute.

Previously, you had to hope that through this self-inflicted horror, you'd find an expert that can augment you. Now that expert rests on huggingface.

It's still.. not perfect, of course. But it might be less miserable - provided that you adapt to the current state of things and stop with the "trawling for volunteers".

__

Of course, this does not help you against "skids let claude find bugs that you'd need and burn it for no reason" as per the twitter thread, but I wouldn't rule out that they would not have done that, if less information was public.

And.. that too was an issue before LLMs.

Information wants to be free, but so does your cat, and your cat gets run over by some crackhead in a 30 year old rusty pickup if you just put it outside without thinking.

So don't let it go out unattended.

That said, this "pep talk" is more directed at myself than at poor Andy. This must all suck big time.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#74

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. Same thing did happen to many work places. People at all levels proxy questions through LLMs and don't even bother to read/trim/edit the response. Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

Just this morning I had a senior manager say to me "I was trying to do someone else's job and give them all the info so they can review it as I have no knowledge" in response to me asking for them to please filter the Claude word salad using the meat proxy. I'm pretty tired of having to do the job of filtering the low-effort copy-paste walls of text

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find this very offensive. You shouldn't, unless you're producing a bunch of code you don't understand.

you might be OK with calling everybody using LLMs a bunch of noobs. I disagree. this has nothing to do with my own usage.

> everybody using LLMs a bunch of noobs

That wasn't even the claim...

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#76

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

[deleted]

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#77

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

[deleted]

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find this very offensive. You shouldn't, unless you're producing a bunch of code you don't understand.

you might be OK with calling everybody using LLMs a bunch of noobs. I disagree. this has nothing to do with my own usage.

I don't think he was calling everybody that is using LLMs a bunch of noobs. I think he was calling the people using LLMs to submit code they don't understand a bunch of noobs. I think if the patches were well reasoned and could be talked about in detail by their submitters, he'd have much less of a complaint.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#79

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. Same thing did happen to many work places. People at all levels proxy questions through LLMs and don't even bother to read/trim/edit the response. Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

Wasn't there an article here, or was it under another HN post as a comment? Someone pointed out that the before the dawn of LLMs, "bad contributors" had a rate limiter of sorts. Now anyone can prompt their LLM and throw their output at you, shifting the burden entirely on the reviewer at highest possible speed.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#80

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. Same thing did happen to many work places. People at all levels proxy questions through LLMs and don't even bother to read/trim/edit the response. Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

Meat proxies. Artificially intelligent.
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