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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

bbc.com

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#391

Post by another-dave »

trklausss wrote: post #240
FabCH wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

I'm curious how an integration into Schengen Area could actually work... Or does it just mean no passport controls? Also, to be able to sell stuff, you gotta comply with the CE rules one way or another, there is no free card here. About competition in Eurovision: absolutely, would love for them to participate, even if just as guest state :D LMAO just googled it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_in_the_Eurovision_…

> Also, to be able to sell stuff, you gotta comply with the CE rules one way or another, there is no free card here.

Yes but there's a big difference between "only import electronics that aren't fire hazards" and "you have to pay custom & excise on anything you import".

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#392

Post by prawn »

cmiles8 wrote: post #325
joha4270 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if Trump had just faded into obscurity after 2021 we probably wouldn't see this kind of realignment, but the fact he got reelected makes it look much less like a fluke and more like an USA that's increasingly unreliable on the international stage

Not giving you what you want != unreliable. It’s been extremely reliable for folks that want other things.

Context of this discussion is Canada (and Europe). It's not at all reliable for them.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#393

Post by thih9 »

fidotron wrote: post #367
corford wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. That's a bit of a stretch

It's literally what happened. Cameron was trying to reduce the scope of EU integration with the UK (esp freedom of movement), with the threat he didn't want to use of a referendum, the EU said no (as the other commenter explained partly to disincentivize others, but also because they thought he was bluffing and people would never vote to leave), so the referendum was held.

To be fair, freedom of movement is one of the core principles[1] of the EU.

Restricting that is a tall ask, I wouldn't describe refusing that as being inflexible.

[1]: https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor... "Freedom of movement gives citizens the right to move and reside freely within the Union."

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#394

Post by corford »

graemep wrote: post #112
penguin_booze wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK left Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. > The EU does not have a military to annex any neighbours with. Individual states do, but non are really great powers any more. You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that.

> Yes, you can read all about how that came about, and how it's going. Yes, it seems to have made no difference. economically - economy performing much the same as France and Germany. Lots of lives saved by the faster covid vaccine rollout which is a plus IMO. > You're projecting an American ideal. Not all nations are--nor want to be--America, and we're thankful for that. You are missing my point. Not annexing anyone…

Brexit has caused an estimated ~6-8% per capita loss of output: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyv0m164m84o

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#395

Post by LeBit »

cmiles8 wrote: post #208
layer8 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US governance has become so unreliable, destructive and inane, with little prospect of reverting back to what is once was, given the US’ internal political and societal landscape, that being under its “wings” now constitutes a major risk for any of its allies. Canada is correct to diversify.

I hear you, but the US is hardly the only country on the planet that’s had a few disruptive elections, including the EU BTW. Making generational decisions over one presidential cycle is rather short sighted.

Trump was elected twice.

Until the USA fixes their broken political system, it would be unreasonable to seek to create major bonds with them.

They will remain a partner, but they should be a minority partner.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#396

Post by mitxela »

pyrale wrote: post #34
0xpgm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that is common about middle democracies is that prioritize a bureaucratic elite structure over an entrepreneurship culture, while both the US and China embrace entreprenuership wholeheartedly. If they changed that they'd perhaps become world powers themselves.

> One thing that is common about middle democracies is that prioritize a bureaucratic elite structure over an entrepreneurship culture No, that's just the 2010s propaganda fed to you by people who assert that not letting them do whatever they want is "bureaucratic". These very same people are completely fine lobbying legislature for more moat when they benefit from it. The difference between "middle democracies" or w…

I live in one, it's definitely true. It doesn't mean entrepreneurship doesn't exist, but there is a lot of bureaucracy and the bureaucracy is iron law. They will go to any extreme to make reality align with the bureaucracy. For example if you build a building without permission, the police will come by with a bulldozer, demolish your building, dispose of the remains, and then bill you for it. Even if the building is hosting the world's first AGI, or whatever extremely important thing you can think of - there is no excuse for not complying with the bureaucracy. Whereas the US would allow you to keep it and maybe pay a fine.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#398

Post by data-ottawa »

0x10ca1h0st wrote: post #222

If that be the case, maybe we the USA ought to take the UK and Ireland as an associate state of the USA.

So two regions declare they want to be closer and your reaction is “we should conquer a couple countries just to show them up”?

This is exactly the problem.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#399

Post by mschuster91 »

vintermann wrote: post #239
shevy-java wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Israel's public broadcaster is a long time member of the European Broadcasting Union, which has nothing to do with EU, and honestly not all that much to do with Europe either. EBU organizes Eurovision. Why Israel's public broadcaster wanted to be part of EBU I don't know, cultural identification with Europe I guess? You'd have to ask them. But either way that's not the scandal. The scandal is that Russia's broadcaste…

Simple, for one the ITU region assignment, there's a bunch of other countries in Africa and Asia that are in the European Broacasting Area and thus eligible to join the EBU.

The other thing more applies to other sports like soccer, most Arab countries (but especially Iran) will not accept having to work with Israel because it would require them to accept Israel as a legitimate country.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#400

Post by fidotron »

FrancisMoodie wrote: post #378
fidotron wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. All depends on what an associate member is of course.

I mean, not really, since the UK was trying to renegotiate an existing deal (which they profited from for decades) towards a deal that would favor the UK more than the EU and would trigger an entire blow-back of other member-states wanting to renegotiate on their EU responsibilities without losing the advantages that this deal brought, whereas the deal with Canada is a new deal where the EU gains better trading and l…

> Also, the Brexit referendum was a campaign promise of David Cameron that was going to trigger if his conservative party won the 2015 general election

That is iff the renegotiations with Brussels failed, which they did.

> The UK renegotiation was a net loss for the EU, this Canada deal is a deal where both parties gain something.

V. hard to see what Canada gets out of it. All the roadblocks to Canadian trade with the EU today (especially around resources) are internal to Canada and have nothing at all to do with EU status.

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