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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

bbc.com

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#371

Post by greenavocado »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #250
shevy-java wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Eurovision is also stupid. Why is Israel part of it? That makes zero sense, even way aside from what war criminal Netanyahu is doing - it's not a european country. Something is wrong with the word EU. It constantly seeks to expand. So that is now a misnomer. Eligibility to compete is not based on country, but my membership to the European Braodcasting Union of which Israel is a member, and Australian SBS is an asso…

> Learn to lighten up and have some fun instead.

Easy to say if you haven't experienced the killings

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#372

Post by Maskawanian »

bluedino wrote: post #251
cmiles8 wrote: post #158

This would be Canada getting down leveled to the minor leagues. Yes there are a few issues with the US, but Canada is vastly better off playing on the world stage under the wings of the US than it would be as the EU’s “associate member.” The next phase of history is going the be China and the US and then everyone else scrambling for scraps.

They'll be right back in two years

Naïve American exceptionalism. It is going to be generations before Canadians could possibly be on as friendly terms as we were just 5 years ago.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#373

Post by fangspire »

shevy-java wrote: post #153
FabCH wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

[flagged]

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#374

Post by fidotron »

Sharlin wrote: post #363
fidotron wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the other part: if associate membership is a thing then won't half of the EU start thinking that's their future?

>> Also, game theoretically it's of course more important to not make leaving (or threatening to leave) the union seem too lucrative. Because you simply wouldn't be offered the option of just deescalating your full membership to an associate membership. If you want to leave, you leave fully, and then in time we can discuss what happens next. Also, obviously an associate membership shouldn't feel more desirable than f…

This makes being involved as little as possible but no more far more attractive than being bound too tightly together though.

Almost like many of the EU states were misled into their current situations.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#375

Post by toasty228 »

ololobus wrote: post #331

I have no idea how we do it, but I think we should somehow ban the expansion of all the existing unions (EU, CIS, NATO, whatever else we got). The overall worldwide tension is pretty high, but now - US goes after South America and Greenland - EU goes after Canada and Georgia (country), which is just ridiculous in terms of geography - Russia invades Ukraine and goes after Eastern Europe and Middle-East to some extent…

- US goes after South America and Greenland

- EU goes after Canada and Georgia (country), which is just ridiculous in terms of geography

Absolute brain dead comparison

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#376

Post by blitzar »

fidotron wrote: post #283
klelatti wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. > no payments into each others budget. Not going to happen! To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment. Even when the regimes are basically identical - eg the UK - then the EU doesn't permit i…

It's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. All depends on what an associate member is of course.

The UK wanted to maintain its veto over all EU matters (cake and eat it too).

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#377

Post by klelatti »

embedding-shape wrote: post #346
klelatti wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. > no payments into each others budget. Not going to happen! To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment. Even when the regimes are basically identical - eg the UK - then the EU doesn't permit i…

> To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment. Doesn't seem to be true anymore, at least in every case. See the EU-Mercosur agreement for one recent exception to this, the goods we're now importing from South America don't have the same regulatory environment by far, to many of our local farmers.

EU - Mercosur is not free movement of goods and services.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#378

Post by FrancisMoodie »

fidotron wrote: post #283
klelatti wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. > no payments into each others budget. Not going to happen! To enable free movement of goods and services the EU insists that the goods and services are produced in an identical regulatory environment. Even when the regimes are basically identical - eg the UK - then the EU doesn't permit i…

It's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. All depends on what an associate member is of course.

I mean, not really, since the UK was trying to renegotiate an existing deal (which they profited from for decades) towards a deal that would favor the UK more than the EU and would trigger an entire blow-back of other member-states wanting to renegotiate on their EU responsibilities without losing the advantages that this deal brought, whereas the deal with Canada is a new deal where the EU gains better trading and less dependence on the US and Canada gains better trading and more security if their next door neighbor falls apart even further.

The UK renegotiation was a net loss for the EU, this Canada deal is a deal where both parties gain something.

Also, the Brexit referendum was a campaign promise of David Cameron that was going to trigger if his conservative party won the 2015 general election. Sure, the relationship between EU and UK had strained over the years, but trying to pin this on the inflexibility of the EU feels a bit misdirected.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#379

Post by mitxela »

method_capital wrote: post #334
input_sh wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on, on which dimensions is China 150 years behind the West?

Creativity, innovation, freedom? 10 guys in a room can't compete for long against hundreds of millions or billions pursuing their own separate interests. Sure, they can steal, but they can't create to the same degree if at all.

Why is all the newest and best technology from China, outside a few specific fields?

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#380

Post by throwaway894345 »

ololobus wrote: post #331

I have no idea how we do it, but I think we should somehow ban the expansion of all the existing unions (EU, CIS, NATO, whatever else we got). The overall worldwide tension is pretty high, but now - US goes after South America and Greenland - EU goes after Canada and Georgia (country), which is just ridiculous in terms of geography - Russia invades Ukraine and goes after Eastern Europe and Middle-East to some extent…

I’m an American, and I don’t see it as a purely political game against Trump—my country has dramatically shifted its position toward its allies from reliable partner for 80 years to aggressive antagonist both in trade and military. And it’s not just a rogue president—a full third of the US electorate supports these actions.

It makes sense to me that these countries would want to build new trade and security alliances with countries who have similar interests and who face similar threats.

The alternative to these defensive military pacts is that Russia or the US or whomever can literally invade and annex countries piecemeal to expand their power. If we can’t effectively ban that, then it doesn’t make sense to me to ban the only thing that deters it today.

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