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Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

bbc.com

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Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#421

Post by rasz »

apt-get wrote: post #3

Just days after a similar (criminal) incident causing a train to derail in France: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/09/12/french-p... "close to Renault's factory in the town of Cléon", which is now preparing to start manufacturing drones for the French military, in collaboration with Ukrainian military-industrial groups.

Last week we had four train-truck collisions at Polish level crossings resulting in derailment and passenger death, and afaik 2 or 3 involved foreign truck drivers.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#422

Post by rasz »

vincnetas wrote: post #258
sorenjan wrote: post #12

A Russian warship fired flares at a Danish military helicopter in international waters in the Baltic sea too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo

on same day today: Nato jets down drone that entered Lithuanian airspace https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjx2zgk7edlzo

and another ru drone washed ashore in Poland https://www.reuters.com/world/poland-finds-suspected-russian...

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#423

Post by pvaldes »

persolb wrote: post #277

I do engineering on these systems and have some expertise on this particular class of event. We’ve had tabletop red teams, and the general outcome is that rail systems being designed to ‘fail safe’ is an easy target. Failing safe at an individual actual ‘fault’ is still the best option, but it could be abused at scale. It’s near impossible to cause two trains to run into each other (unless you are physically operatin…

Why all this farmers know so much about how to sabotage trains suddenly?

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#424

Post by pvaldes »

zergrush wrote: post #315

Why do people automatically jump to conclusion that it was Russia in the comments? They haven't even released any evidence or investigation yet in official sense.

Because we had seen the same old tricks a thousand times before.

Nobody wakes up some day saying I know exactly how to stop a train without being caught. Or: I know exactly were to cut to enter in this restricted area that normal people never had heard about it just to steal a few copper cable here and there (or worse, fiber optic cable)

Random actions are truly random. This acts aren't random. They need instead planning, precise knowledge that is not available to most people, and direction to coordinate them in several locations at the same time

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#426

Post by esseph »

Terr_ wrote: post #420
phainopepla2 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France provides Ukraine with targeting information that allows Ukraine to strike deep inside Russia, including industrial targets. So France is directly contributing to attacks against non-military target in Russia, yes. Source: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/81382

Hm, if Russia were to seriously deploy that logic to justify sabotage in European countries (insofar as a kleptocratic dictatorship is ever serious or logical), it could backfire a bit: 1. If France is a sabotage-justified enemy, then so is the US, which provides some intelligence to Ukraine. 2. In the other direction, Russia has been giving targeting information and weapons to Iran to attack the US forces. So if the…

Russia has traded Iran drones in exchange for Iranian artillery rounds to use in Ukraine.

And China has sent Iran anti air missiles and provides Russia and Iran with targeting data.

And North Korean troops all over Russia...

It's a shitshow.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#427

Post by snvzz »

pvaldes wrote: post #423
persolb wrote: post #277

I do engineering on these systems and have some expertise on this particular class of event. We’ve had tabletop red teams, and the general outcome is that rail systems being designed to ‘fail safe’ is an easy target. Failing safe at an individual actual ‘fault’ is still the best option, but it could be abused at scale. It’s near impossible to cause two trains to run into each other (unless you are physically operatin…

Why all this farmers know so much about how to sabotage trains suddenly?

LLMs, likely.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#428

Post by etc-hosts »

brookst wrote: post #269
spwa4 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ideal scenario is everyone suspects it's you but can't prove it. Why? EU countries have shown time and time again they won't do anything. I mean for God's sake, Russia was caught sending THREE remote controlled flying bomb on a German airfield, with another one found by a passerby before it was launched. They contained professionally made Russian explosives. There is no doubt who did it. This was not the first,…

Because being too blatant will galvanize the public and create support for open war. The goal is to ensure all reasonable people know, while keeping enough deniability that Russian-funded right-wing groups can sow doubt about attribution and response policy’s They don’t care whether it can be proven in court or by people paying close attention. They care whether it can’t be denied even by their aligned agents in west…

The Russians have learned from the best.

Look up how successful the US has been in getting right wing crazy people elected as the heads of state in nearly every Central and South American country by funding right-wing groups, with the exception of Mexico and Brazil (but top minds are working on this).

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#429

Post by zergrush »

pvaldes wrote: post #424
zergrush wrote: post #315

Why do people automatically jump to conclusion that it was Russia in the comments? They haven't even released any evidence or investigation yet in official sense.

Because we had seen the same old tricks a thousand times before. Nobody wakes up some day saying I know exactly how to stop a train without being caught. Or: I know exactly were to cut to enter in this restricted area that normal people never had heard about it just to steal a few copper cable here and there (or worse, fiber optic cable) Random actions are truly random. This acts aren't random. They need instead plan…

Do you have evidence that Russia did this ?

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#430

Post by kadoban »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #351
spwa4 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ideal scenario is everyone suspects it's you but can't prove it. Why? EU countries have shown time and time again they won't do anything. I mean for God's sake, Russia was caught sending THREE remote controlled flying bomb on a German airfield, with another one found by a passerby before it was launched. They contained professionally made Russian explosives. There is no doubt who did it. This was not the first,…

Because the Kremlin wants europe to take an overt action to justify mobilization. There are many better assymetric ways for europe to retaliate.

> Because the Kremlin wants europe to take an overt action to justify mobilization.

Do they? Why? They're already in a stalemate of a conflict, why would they want more fully-mobilized enemies?

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