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New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

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Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#331

Post by happytoexplain »

mritun wrote: post #218
petcat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics don’t make any more sense for Canada or the EU than they do for the US. The the new $100k H1B fee was imposed because companies have a huge financial incentive to import semi-skilled workers from lower-wage markets rather than hire domestically. Canada and the EU face the same problem. In tech, it's about the kinds of work inexperienced/cheap developers are often doing: assembly line, JIRA-ticket-taker…

Patently false narrative, equivalent to saying all americans are fat - both are extremely cheap uneducated arguments. Every single H1B I worked with was brilliant in their field - and paid extremely well often in excess of $400K. I know several that are earning well past $500K. If you claim these are generic Jira pushers, well you are showing ignorance. The $100K fees isn’t material to them but the whole vitriolic no…

That just means you worked with brilliant people paid in excess of $400K. It probably has more to do with where you worked than with the talent or compensation of H1Bs across the spectrum.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#332

Post by esalman »

lokar wrote: post #137
binlog wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then why do they hand out visas that require “extraordinary ability”?

The company documents it and files an application. It’s pretty formula and a bit random. I’ve written recommendation letters for colleges to get these. My impression was the person evaluating it knows a bit about the field, they are no where near as informed as we were. AIUI, the pay was a bigger factor.

Spot on. USCIS adjudicators decide if an application has merit. While they are supposed to be financially self sufficient and good at the adjudication process, there is A. pressure from current administration resulting in rejection of application with merit, and B. pressure from the applicant pool to game even O1 or EB2 processes, just like H1B.

The government/USCIS could invest in the adjudication process to make it more robust. But they choose to leverage it for political gains instead. It helps nobody, not US, not US workers and not non-US workers who actually have merit and rather not cheat.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#333

Post by bickfordb »

triceratops wrote: post #147
bickfordb wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B was intended for highly specialized skills that where there is no local talent available.

"Foreign language teacher" isn't a "highly specialized skill"? Tons of Americans work as English teachers abroad.

I don't believe it is (someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable), but there should probably be a visa for that if we need it. I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs.

They work abroad under the respective country's work visa. H1B is US specific, specific visa. The US has plenty of other work visas.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#334

Post by bijowo1676 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #325
bijowo1676 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers have only one job: to maximize profits, thats it. It is not employers' fault that US is unable to train tech workers, despite spending $30-40k per pupil in school system only to end up #27 in PISA ranking. The problem with all anti-H1B discourse is Lump Of Labor fallacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy ). The loudest people are the least educated about the consequences of blocking high…

>Employers have only one job: to maximize profits, thats it. This is wrong. In practice, we bias toward this rule because it happens to align with benefit to society moreso than other rules (most of the time), but it is not the end, it is the means. The responsibility of employers (and all people participating in society) is to jointly maintain, and ideally improve, society. That's part of why government exists - to…

there is no smart argument to ban H1B. Its all pure jingoism and racism. There is really nothing else here.

The fact that America is global tech leader is thanks to foreigners, all these FAANGs and MAG7s and OpenAI and Anthropic, the paper "Transformers is all your need", everything was created by highly skilled foreigners.

Without foreigners there is no tech sector, no sweet MAG7 and FAANG stock returns, America would be steamrolled in tech the same way Ford, Chevrolet, Buick, and Dodge were steamrolled by Toyota and BMW.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#335

Post by PNewling »

rayiner wrote: post #308
rgbrgb wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> semi-skilled workers fwiw the h1-b workers I encountered in bigtech were totally on-par with their US citizen equivalents in both coding and english communication. many teams were about 50/50 in my office (SF, non-HQ). my current talent/placement company works mostly with AI startups who are usually too early to support visa requirements [0]. being able to support the lead-time and planning for international applic…

Remember H1B is a lottery . So yes, some of them will have the qualifications to get hired at places like FAANG. But many (most?) are pretty mediocre. There's also an extra allocation for people who get "advanced degrees" from a U.S. university. That's also a lottery, so most of the spots go to graduates of diploma-mill Master's programs. These programs are very lucrative for third-tier schools.

I've often wondered what the best way to do this, if the goal was to bring over only top tier talent. I've heard it floated it could be a bidding system instead of a lottery (countered with the fact that only the biggest firms would be able to bid high enough to bring people in), but I'm not an economist so I don't know how that would all shake out.

I think I'm more just speaking out loud here: what is the optimal way to do this that allows a capped influx of talented outside workers, that doesn't allow "degree mills"?

I don't have an answer, but I honestly wonder. Some of the green card folks I've worked with (I know that is different, or at least I think it is in the grand scheme of things?) have been some of the smartest people I've worked with.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#336

Post by LastTrain »

WarmWash wrote: post #314
LastTrain wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he “let’s put some limits on the number of H1Bs” anti immigration or was he “let’s deport 100 million people and shoot some innocent citizens in the face while doing it” anti immigration?

We won't ever know. I know this sounds like a cop out, but Bernie isn't Ghandi just because he thinks socialism is cool. The immigrants who got shot were "fascist riot inciters" and it all just vanishes into the news media abyss. Same thing how the left media does full lifetime bios on deported immigrants while the right media only reports on the gangsters and rapists who get deported.

Oh we know. What I also know is: I can be friends with someone who disagrees with me about whether Bernie Sanders policies are good for America. I cannot be friends with a person who is an apologist for ICE wearing masks, driving unmarked cars, illegally detaining American citizens, and killing innocent people with zero accountability. Have a nice day.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#337

Post by WarmWash »

LastTrain wrote: post #336
WarmWash wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We won't ever know. I know this sounds like a cop out, but Bernie isn't Ghandi just because he thinks socialism is cool. The immigrants who got shot were "fascist riot inciters" and it all just vanishes into the news media abyss. Same thing how the left media does full lifetime bios on deported immigrants while the right media only reports on the gangsters and rapists who get deported.

Oh we know. What I also know is: I can be friends with someone who disagrees with me about whether Bernie Sanders policies are good for America. I cannot be friends with a person who is an apologist for ICE wearing masks, driving unmarked cars, illegally detaining American citizens, and killing innocent people with zero accountability. Have a nice day.

I don't see anywhere that I apologized for it?

My observation is simply that we don't know what Bernie's immigration enforcement would look like.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#338

Post by triceratops »

bickfordb wrote: post #333
triceratops wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Foreign language teacher" isn't a "highly specialized skill"? Tons of Americans work as English teachers abroad.

I don't believe it is (someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable), but there should probably be a visa for that if we need it. I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs. They work abroad under the respective country's work visa. H1B is US specific, specific visa. The US has plenty of other work visas.

> I don't believe it is...I personally don't believe even a lot of the software/IT industry jobs merit H1Bs.

The law doesn't work based on your beliefs.

> someone who knows two languages isn't remarkable, someone who can teach others isn't remarkable

First: it depends on the language.

Second: the combination of two relatively commonplace skills in one person isn't commonplace. "Be top 20% in two things instead of top 5% in one thing" is standard career advice.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#339

Post by lokar »

alistairSH wrote: post #298
lokar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME it’s not cheaper, it’s the only way to find enough qualified people

Meh, not sure I really buy that argument. I've never had a problem hiring in the US. And this is for a mid-tier, mid-size software company that most people have never heard of, not located in SV, and PE-owned (not much in the way of big bonuses and no stock options).

I’ve interviewed hundreds of people over many years. Lucky to find one out of 10 that are good.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#340

Post by Ar-Curunir »

philipallstar wrote: post #216
repeekad wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US says they don't want them, the point of the article is the new visa requirements (surprise) aren't converting into hiring US citizens but instead pushing the roles offshore.

Well yes, what difference does it make to bring people over to the US vs them doing the work overseas? Bringing people over has negative consequences in the US (housing demand goes up; water demand goes up; power demand goes up) and in the person's home country (money doesn't flow to the local country; good people leave who should be staying and building their own country).

The only population growth the US gets is from immigration. Cutting out skilled population growth is not a good idea!!
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