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New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

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Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#291

Post by dh2022 »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #284
dh2022 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the environment that enabled businesses to lower their cost by admitting China in WTO hostile to conducting business? BTW - with or without unions manufacturing was profitable in the US before NAFTA and China entering WTO. So your narrative that manufacturing was dying because of labor unions does not hold much water.

the offshoring of manufacturing started in the 50s and 60s and accelerated in the 80s. the reason is that US wanted to do specialized high value manufacturing, and was offshoring everything low value and low margin, because of increasing cost of environment and labor regulations and unions. My fear is that if US becomes hostile to foreign tech workers, they will simply create alternatives to US Big Tech in other coun…

"the offshoring of manufacturing started in the 50s and 60s and accelerated in the 80s. " - not true.

Manufacturing offshoring started in late 90s in small part due to NAFTA and then accelerated when China entered WTO in early 2000s (thank you President Clinton for this one).

The manufacturing employment trend shows this quite clearly I think: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#292

Post by cvhc »

infecto wrote: post #105
bijowo1676 wrote: post #65

Canada is jumping on this opportunity to invite the US tech workers who are frustrated with US H1B visa restrictions and GC backlog by offering an express permanent residency in 10 days https://canadabychoice.com/services/move-to-canada/usa/occup... Canada also floating idea of alliance with Europe for travel and job opportunities https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-eu-me...

Canada historically is also one of the worst places to work in tech. Maybe it’s changed but I remember a decade ago tech jobs were paying a 1/4th of what they were in NYC/SF.

It's still bad. I got a 40%+ pay cut after being transferred from the Bay Area to Vancouver. It seems local companies pay even less than US big techs. And just search and see how Vancouver is regarded as one of the least affordable cities.

Though I don't worry too much about the pay -- it's still a decent amount. It just sometimes makes me feel unfair when I'm doing the exact same job as my US colleagues.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#293

Post by Matthias247 »

rayiner wrote: post #91
orangedog wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Canada not already have an issue with not enough jobs available?

My uncle is a skilled immigrant to Canada (electrical engineer) and was never able to find an engineering job. They live in an immigrant-heavy subsidized housing neighborhood full of people in the same situation.

I know it's not exactly the same. But would he consider becoming an electrician? Trade jobs are definitely getting more and more in demand, and the pay once established is definitely not worse than most engineer positions. Electricians in major canadian areas (e.g. Vancouver) charge 200$ per hour and more.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#294

Post by chaostheory »

bigmadshoe wrote: post #266
chaostheory wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian salaries are terrible once you realize that the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US, which is why a lot of Canadian engineers left for the US

This just isn't true. Yes, ratio of salary to cost of living is better in the US, setting aside the precarious immigration process, political instability, high rates of gun crime, lack of healthcare, etc. I left this reply to someone else claiming the same thing: You can easily look up the cost of living for e.g. Vancouver: > Cost of Living Including Rent in San Francisco, CA is 57.8% higher than in Vancouver > Rent…

This isn’t a good comparison because a better comparison would be the SF Bay Area (the metro) instead of just SF. Also my point is that the Canadian cost of living is comparable to the US while simultaneously having salaries that are a fraction of the US. I believe your nurses are also going south for the same reason though a few places like Vancouver have started to subsidize their housing.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#295

Post by chaostheory »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #178
chaostheory wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian salaries are terrible once you realize that the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US, which is why a lot of Canadian engineers left for the US

its a matter of building a sustaining tech ecosystem: colleges, employers, investors ecosystem. Once they figure out the ecosystem Canada can arbitrage away the broken US immigration policies and anti-immigrant bigotry. Just as manufacturing jobs in heartland have left US for Asia, so do tech jobs can leave US for Canada, India and elsewhere

> Once they figure out the ecosystem Canada

1. It is not easy to immigrate to Canada.

2. There is also a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment in Canada even from people on the left if you’re not white. Canadians just do not like Asians anymore.

3. Canada has so much red tape for business that it forces many entrepreneurial Canadians to either gravitate towards real estate, online streaming as entertainers, or simply just move down south.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#296

Post by alistairSH »

throwawalien wrote: post #80
alistairSH wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you determine the "correct" location of a job? My employer sells software internationally - are you claiming any international job should be subject to some sort of fine simply because the company is HQed in the US? I suppose we could try slicing revenue or profit by sales region and comparing against headcount expense per region? But with salaries abroad being a fraction of in the US, that math might still wo…

devil's advocate - if they are HQ'd in the US, is hiring US citizens that big of an ask? why do they need cheap overseas labor?

For us, it's a mix of...

Local SMEs (regulatory requirements), sales, local implementation teams, HR / legal (to support the previous employees). And engineers.

Sales and implementation could maybe be US-based, but then we're flying them around the globe. Not sure that makes sense vs hiring locals.

SMEs, similar story - not always available in the US.

The engineers are the only ones that could realistically be co-located in the US. But, a good chunk of those were acqui-hired, so now you're asking them all to relocate to the US? Not sure that's viable in the best of times, and definitely not in today's ass-backwards political climate.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#297

Post by chaostheory »

orangedog wrote: post #187
bijowo1676 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its a matter of building a sustaining tech ecosystem: colleges, employers, investors ecosystem. Once they figure out the ecosystem Canada can arbitrage away the broken US immigration policies and anti-immigrant bigotry. Just as manufacturing jobs in heartland have left US for Asia, so do tech jobs can leave US for Canada, India and elsewhere

The us is not anti-immigrant, it accepts massive numbers of immigrants every year. It would be below sustainable birthrate without it.

That was before the current administration. We are already below a sustainable birth rate directly thanks to policies by Miller.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#298

Post by alistairSH »

lokar wrote: post #107
throwawalien wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

devil's advocate - if they are HQ'd in the US, is hiring US citizens that big of an ask? why do they need cheap overseas labor?

IME it’s not cheaper, it’s the only way to find enough qualified people

Meh, not sure I really buy that argument. I've never had a problem hiring in the US. And this is for a mid-tier, mid-size software company that most people have never heard of, not located in SV, and PE-owned (not much in the way of big bonuses and no stock options).

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#299

Post by chuckadams »

emodendroket wrote: post #213
chuckadams wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs that Americans weren't getting because it was cheaper to hire an H1-B indentured servant instead. The current administration will no doubt find a way to make everything worse, but they didn't start with a good program to begin with.

Just because the status quo isn’t good doesn’t mean we should blindly support anyone changing it even if their results will be even worse.

I think I'm more likely to become a nun than blindly support anything from the current administration.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#300

Post by cvhc »

bigmadshoe wrote: post #266
chaostheory wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian salaries are terrible once you realize that the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US, which is why a lot of Canadian engineers left for the US

This just isn't true. Yes, ratio of salary to cost of living is better in the US, setting aside the precarious immigration process, political instability, high rates of gun crime, lack of healthcare, etc. I left this reply to someone else claiming the same thing: You can easily look up the cost of living for e.g. Vancouver: > Cost of Living Including Rent in San Francisco, CA is 57.8% higher than in Vancouver > Rent…

I was just transferred from the silicon valley to Vancouver so I have to comment...:

1. Vancouver is well regarded as one of the least affordable cities. 2. I stay in the same role but got a 40%+ pay cut so that offsets the "Cost of Living Including Rent". 3. If you compare other bay area cities (Sunnyvale, San Mateo, Fremont...) where tech workers live to Vancouver, it's not as dramatic. 4. While I support universal health care, which is good for average people in society, it's not necessarily a pro for tech workers. US tech companies buy good health insurance plans for their employees. I used to walk in my company's on-site health centers to get same-day health care in the US. In Canada, I have to wait for days to see the primary care provider and drive one hour to another provider to get exams.

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