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Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

andonlabs.com

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Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#51

Post by arjie »

compiler-guy wrote: post #35
tomhow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The submitter's replies are defensive because people are accusing them of coordinated voting, which is not evident to us. The post hit the front page due to the second chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/pool , explained here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ), then quickly got upvotes that seem completely authentic.

It would look a lot less like astroturf if the submitter let the discussion evolve instead of answering every criticism within seconds of it being posted.

I actually like when the submitter is present and the creator. They’re actually involved. There are lots of users here who play at being submitters of high-value content (created by others) only to later submit their own entirely AI written drivel.

This is interesting.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#52

Post by switchbak »

piterrro wrote: post #31

Interesting to see these experiments. This is early but imagine in few years there will be companies mostly run by agents with a light overview from a human operator. What then happens to scaling of the bussinesses? I would assume, just like today anyone can vibe code an app, there will be vibecoded bussinesses. Maybe its time to start building infrastructure for these bussinesses instead, its a non existent market y…

Part of the issue is that the worst kind of people are already head over heels excited about this. We're already seeing the Crypto->Web3->LLM get rich quick folks take to this like wildfire. And much like wildfire, they'll raze the ground to ashes before anyone can use it for legitimate means.

If you think I'm joking, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Rqv9dOB1U

I don't think any of us are ready for the wave of sloppy shit that's going to hit us soon.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#53

Post by tomhow »

compiler-guy wrote: post #35
tomhow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The submitter's replies are defensive because people are accusing them of coordinated voting, which is not evident to us. The post hit the front page due to the second chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/pool , explained here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ), then quickly got upvotes that seem completely authentic.

It would look a lot less like astroturf if the submitter let the discussion evolve instead of answering every criticism within seconds of it being posted.

They're entitled to defend themselves against accusations of things they haven't done, and also to respond to questions or assertions about their project. We encourage project creators to engage in the discussions about their projects. This is a normal part of building and launching a project.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#54

Post by lenerdenator »

ocimbote wrote: post #38
polytely wrote: post #23

how does this work from a liability standpoint? seems very risky for the person who is legally responsible for the business

Accountability, that's the liability everyone seems to have forgotten in our LLM-driven era. You can close your eyes as much you want during your sessions with Claude or whatever, at the end of the day, only a human can be held accountable.

That's just it, though: we don't hold humans accountable.

Incorporation is a way to split a human's financial assets from the company they run so that they don't lose everything when the company is successfully sued. Corporate governance boards often have the C-suite executives they're meant to govern on the board. The average person does not have the financial resources needed to take on most companies in court, no matter how justified the suit might be. Companies force arbitration clauses in license agreements at will. Companies like Meta settle with the government for pennies on the dollar in massive lawsuits.

Effectively, at the scale many tech companies work at, there is no effective legal way to hold the company accountable.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#56

Post by switchbak »

rush86999 wrote: post #43
piterrro wrote: post #31

Interesting to see these experiments. This is early but imagine in few years there will be companies mostly run by agents with a light overview from a human operator. What then happens to scaling of the bussinesses? I would assume, just like today anyone can vibe code an app, there will be vibecoded bussinesses. Maybe its time to start building infrastructure for these bussinesses instead, its a non existent market y…

I'm actively working towards this goal. Not sure how many are doing the same. Hopefully, I'm ahead of the curve --- https://github.com/rush86999/atom

10,610 commits since June. How much are you spending on AI?

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#57

Post by Animats »

Andon's store in SF has had some press coverage.[1] "A curated boutique for slow living." It's a gift shop, at 2102 Union St. It looks like the kind of retail that trust-fund kids open. Has anyone been there?

It's just an experiment. But once this gets going, it's going to be interesting. There are a lot of underperforming businesses and CEOs out there. One way to make it after getting an MBA is to find a boring business with an older owner who's lost interest, and work out a deal to run it for a cut of the profits and a stake in the business.

The Andon people mentioned that they've been worried about "a misaligned AI (could) run a business to gather money in order to achieve whatever objectives it might have." That's a basic function of capitalism, so it will happen eventually.

What this adds up to is that when AIs get better at running businesses than many business owners, the "creative destruction" feature of capitalism means AIs ends up in charge of many businesses. The AIs don't even have to be super intelligent, just reasonably good. Reminds me of the remark from a Yosemite park ranger about bear-resistant trash cans: "There is considerable overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists".

It's going to be hard to stop this without a worldwide crackdown on ownership concealment. The US allows you to have a US business run by a Nevada LLC partly owned by a corporation in Nevis-St Kitts and another corporation in Granada. This isn't even unusual. Try to find out who really owns an oil tanker not owned by a major oil company. Right now, a fund partly run by an AI might have partial ownership.

This is how AI takes over. Not with an army of robots. With an army of LLCs.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/san-francisco-market-ai...

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#58

Post by zachthewf »

LargeWu wrote: post #27
LargeWu wrote: post #16

Does Pion run Andon Labs autonomously?

Downvote if you want, but this is a very relevant question. If their marketing is to be believed, they would be eating their own dog food. This very analog to the Meta executives who won't let their own kids near social media.

It's a relevant question but not a "gotcha". Businesses are not equivalent in complexity and no one at Andon would claim that running an effective vending machine business is similar to running Apple or Jane Street. There is some level of complexity and other characteristics that AI can maybe handle today. That doesn't mean CEOs should be worried about their jobs more generally.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#59

Post by mrob »

hartator wrote: post #17

Don’t get the negativity here, AI will replace everything sooner or later.

And the Sun's going to engulf the Earth eventually too, but that doesn't justify arson. Let's at least try to delay the coming societal collapse/extinction of all biological life for as long as possible.
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