So where's the kickstarter for an open and private television manufacturing project? Who is building the Framework of open and sustainable TVs?
LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
491–500 of 513 posts
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#492Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read the thread. People are saying ‘if it connects to the LAN it’s safe’. I’m pointing out safe or not has nothing to do with it being on a LAN or not.
I’m completely lost. I’m not talking about safe, I’m talking about how routing everything though a server gives a lot more control to the manufacturer and they’re loathe to give that up.
I’m pointing out that has literally nothing to do with LAN or Wifi. It’s a problem with having literally any (unfiltered) network access at all. Though even filtered, you’re susceptible to bypass attacks.
Notably, a device can even route all command and control through a cloud service, including sending copies/hashes of all accessed content AND also serve just local (as in physically connected) media/content, if it has a network connection.
This has been an issue since BluRAY at least, where players have the capability to check physical media licensing and deny/brick BluRAY media based on network updates of the keys, and could run Java apps which had network access. So at least 20 years? It is a big reason why there was resistance to BluRAY vs DVD, as DVD was a relatively dumb player.
The only way to prevent that is to firewall off or physically disconnect any network access. Which is getting harder to do with cheap LTE modems.
In this example, for instance, I bet these LG TV’s will happily send all this info even if no one is using any network or app based media streaming at all.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
You only need an external server if you want to make it so the end user can access their device remotely. Otherwise, an app can very easily just scan the network for the device. Heck, the app itself could be the thing that sets up the device on the network in the first place.
Remote access should also be do-able without having a manufacturer-run server. We over-complicate things with NAT and with ISPs sabotaging inbound connections to our networks. At least with IPv6 every device on my network is addressable by the outside world, and I can (and should be allowed to) make the decision about whether they are accessible . The device manufacturer should not have to insert themselves into this…
I guess the question is, better or worse?
Remote access without the central server seems to make direct attack easier?
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it doesn’t? They can do all these things just fine over a LAN connection (assuming it routes externally). If you can firewall your LAN - you can also firewall your WiFi.
Except some of the TVs try to connect to unprotected hotspots, or piggyback through ISP's routers' hidden secondary SSIDs. Which even opens people's data and ambient conversations finding their way to the manufacturer or advertisers through war-driving.
I think it’s currently a theoretical issue, not a proven one. Do you have any concrete examples?
IMO, the moment a device starts doing that, I’m setting it on fire.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
So there can only be one extreme or the other extreme? There's no possible world in which a gate can be installed in the wall of the garden?
What does that gate look like in practice?
A sternly-written, notarized letter of indemnification? A bizarro-world sequence of events (like activating Developer Mode on Android)? A game of Galaga which, if played perfectly, unlocks the gate just as doing so unlocks the black car in Ridge Racer on the PSX?
I don't know. It's a gate that allows a person to leave the garden. It exists to be opened, and to be passed through, and also to be closed again -- or to be left open. :)
(The UAC prompt in Windows is also a gate, if existing work is to be studied.)
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
The trouble is that we haven't figured out a trust model that works when we do exclude that relationship. The traditional Windows "run setup.exe" model is terrible for modern expectations of security. The alternatives available today are still very far behind the safety that ordinary users get today when they do enter a relationship with the manufacturer. Unless you're an expert and not a typical consumer.
So there can only be one extreme or the other extreme? There's no possible world in which a gate can be installed in the wall of the garden?
I certainly want the gate. I just acknowledge that some kind of relationship with the hardware manufacturer for the benefit of the ordinary consumer is the best that the technology industry can offer right now.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
Use Apple TV for that.
I.e. spend more money to do things the TV can perfectly well do. We should make the spying illegal so we can use the devices we buy to their full potential without being sold to advertisers. "Give money to this other company that may or may not also be collecting data and may also sell you out in the future" is a suboptimal solution.
No, we should decouple the display hardware from the playback device. Spying or not, the playback part will be obsolete long before the display part.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m completely lost. I’m not talking about safe, I’m talking about how routing everything though a server gives a lot more control to the manufacturer and they’re loathe to give that up.
I’m pointing out that has literally nothing to do with LAN or Wifi. It’s a problem with having literally any (unfiltered) network access at all. Though even filtered, you’re susceptible to bypass attacks. Notably, a device can even route all command and control through a cloud service, including sending copies/hashes of all accessed content AND also serve just local (as in physically connected) media/content, if it h…
And if everything goes through the manufacturer’s servers then you have to give it internet access for it to work at all. If it works over then LAN then you at least have the option to block it without disabling the functionality.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
At 5:58 of the Gamers Nexus (GN) video about LG TV's spying, GN make a statement: Now, our lawyers have made the totally unrelated point uh that we cannot legally agree to contracts such as terms of service or conditions while incredibly innebriated. So they drank a lot of margaritas while video-recording the section concerning reading and accepting the Terms of Service for the TV. Take that LG legal dept. see https:…
I don't think that would hold up in any court in the world. While sober, and in coordination with legal counsel, they made a plan to accept the terms and conditions. That's like a kid swinging their arms around on a playground while saying "I'm not touching you" levels.
New to the concept of parody? They are pointing out the absurdity of the idea that a click to accept shrinkwrap ToS lets LG infringe the rights of whoever talks in front of the TV.
Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was enabled when you accepted the terms and conditions when you first turned it on, or did a firmware update. LGs statment says this: > ACR is an optional feature that is turned off by default. To enable ACR, a user must accept LG’s Viewing Information Agreement, which describes how ACR works. Which I take to mean that when you agree to the terms, it enables the feature.
It also gates some "features" like the "AI" auto-detection of media type to automatically switch the TV between sports, movie, gaming, etc. modes as well. At least from my memory of a recent LG OLED setup.
Hey another benefit of never agreeing to the ToS!