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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#471

Post by anon48293 »

GrinningFool wrote: post #279
tredre3 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough with the knee jerk reactions. They have to record in some cases. You don't have to like those features, but plenty of people want those features. - The television has voice control. - The television has a manually triggered speech-to-text feature so you don't have to type with tv remote.

You'd think if that was all they recorded for, they would be saying it very loudly to end the speculation that weasel-wording leads to.

But they did say that? "LG TVs process voice data only when the voice button on the remote control is pressed and held, or when a wake word such as 'Hi LG' is recognized after the user has activated the Far-Field voice recognition feature."

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#473

Post by didgetmaster »

Is this one of those cases where the TV is being subsidized by the data collection? In other words, if LG had to turn it off, would they have to charge more for the TVs?

Kind of like so many ink jet printers where the manufacturers will sell you the printer at or below cost with the expectation of making it up with overpriced ink cartridges.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#474

Post by dijit »

silisili wrote: post #388
pcardoso wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even some updates will trigger the acceptance screen from time to time, with a second scare confirmation shown when I reject. If my wife or kids were shown that screen when I’m not around they would accept it.

Nearly every notification (new privacy statement, new update, etc) defaults you to clicking accept all, even showing you that you hadn't previously checked them. You have to be vigilant with LG TVs, sadly.

We're singling out LG, but it's also true of Samsung and others.

Maybe Sony is better, based on my memory, but I doubt it now without evidence.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#475

Post by hn_submit »

When they send fingerprints (cryptographic hashes) of the content your watching isn't that "snooping" by definition? OK, they're not recording everything I say or do (probably) but their categorical denial is insincere and factually inaccurate.

If their claim that ACR is "opt-in" is correct it does give them some slack.

And just because everybody else does it too don't make it right.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#476

Post by softwaredoug »

hn_submit wrote: post #475

When they send fingerprints (cryptographic hashes) of the content your watching isn't that "snooping" by definition ? OK, they're not recording everything I say or do (probably) but their categorical denial is insincere and factually inaccurate. If their claim that ACR is "opt-in" is correct it does give them some slack. And just because everybody else does it too don't make it right.

I'm not sure I'd say it's "opt-in"

It's presented as a series of checkboxes when you're using their native WebOS. As if to use Netflix you have to agree to ToS. One of the checkboxes says "ACR" without defining what that is.

The default is "Select All" and submit. There's no "Select Minimal" or somesuch.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#477

Post by Hnrobert42 »

mafuy wrote: post #458
coin wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone connect their TV to the Internet? It’s been known for years that it spies, although maybe not to this extent. Or are these TVs auto connecting open WiFi or the neighbor’s Xfinity WiFi?

> Or are these TVs auto connecting open WiFi or the neighbor’s Xfinity WiFi? Yup. How does that make you feel? Because for me, it was the moment when the border to not only blatantly, but also actively evil was passed.

Do you have any evidence of this? The video expose that kicked off this firestorm said that if you don't actively connect to the internet, then the system is largely inert.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#478

Post by hedora »

mitxela wrote: post #251
rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

> So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Wrong. They claim it doesn't record video. Recording means saving permanently - live processing is not recording. ACR is processing the video output live. Notice what they don't say at all. ACR is just one type of spying. A completely separate feature records wha…

Read it more carefully.

They are claiming three things:

1) that the speaker (the electromagnet and cone) is not processing any video data, and that it is not performing any analysis of the audio data.

2) All the data the speaker gets is processed by an ``ACR'' processor.

3) The ACR's audio fingerprinting algorithm does not use video data.

It says nothing about whether the ACR fingerprints or sends other data, or if there is a "VCR" or some other chip that separately processes the video. It definitely doesn't say anything about the processing done on the server side, whether they can sell residential proxy access, etc, etc.

At least my TCL TV has a physical switch to disable the microphone (and has never seen the internet, of course). It complains the switch is off at boot every once in a while. There are no complaints about the network unless I accidentally push one of the eight "Google, spy harder!" buttons on the remote.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#479

Post by accrual »

didgetmaster wrote: post #473

Is this one of those cases where the TV is being subsidized by the data collection? In other words, if LG had to turn it off, would they have to charge more for the TVs? Kind of like so many ink jet printers where the manufacturers will sell you the printer at or below cost with the expectation of making it up with overpriced ink cartridges.

Yes, but I think it's far more sinister than that. It's not just to recoup costs by showing an ad here and there, it's to "own" an advertisement and data collection front in millions of homes across the globe where the consumer is the product. It's to build a surveillance network and to lease it out or use it themselves.

GamersNexus just released a brand new followup to LG's response and it's damning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#480

Post by accrual »

taylorfinley wrote: post #194
firefoxd wrote: post #110

"We own the glass" that's what really stood out to me. I can still disconnect my TV from wifi. But what scares me is when every device comes with their own esim and cellular radio.

Same here, I registered the domain [0] moments after watching the GN video. It's serving an oled-safe screensaver with some, uh, relevant content. [0] https://weowntheglass.com

Great work! I recommend linking to the update video as well (21 hours old at the time of this comment): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME
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