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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

tomshardware.com

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#391
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be less time consuming to build one yourself.

Less time consuming than just ... not connecting a new TV to WiFi? It's pretty straightforward to get dumb behavior out of a modern smart TV as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version.

Im not sure if you read up on the situation, but the current smart TV's surveillance functions are way beyond what anyone should have to deal with.

They scan and connect to near Wifi devices to send data without consent There is communications being done through HDMI.

I mean what is it going to take for people to realize that getting smart TV, for any reason, is really dumb.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#392
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no practical reason for most people. Spying is the primary function. Edge cases like accessibility or conferencing can be easily enabled with an add on USB mic. You'd need a USB webcam with mic for conferencing anyway.

People use voice commands on TV remotes all the time if they're using streaming apps. At this point it's the default way to interact with the UI for many people. Typing out the show you're searching for with an awkward onscreen keyboard is a huge pain compared to just clicking a button and speaking. HN users are very much in a bubble if it's surprising to learn consumers expect voice control functionality on a new TV…

Whilst most around me do expect voice control to exist... Most expect it not to function. "Hey Siri/Google" was always more of an exercise in frustration than success.

It seems the Australian accent still befuddles most STT with about 1/8 words confused (said as someone who uses STT to use their computer at all).

It would not shock me, if outside of North America and Great Britain, these systems are as effective as the original autocorrect algo.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#393

"We own the glass" that's what really stood out to me. I can still disconnect my TV from wifi. But what scares me is when every device comes with their own esim and cellular radio.

> But what scares me is when every device comes with their own esim and cellular radio.

Cars already do, and the solution is well-known: find the bug, and squash it. Yes, your car will still work, and you cannot be denied warranty because of this. The cellular modem is more or less accessible depending on the make and model.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#394

LG TVs boot Linux and have plenty of capabilities. Why would they not ... take a look around at the environment ... to best enhance ... your errr experience. LG are amongst equals here. I've seen devices (TVs/cameras) do ping sweeps and then port scans. I have two VLANs at home: THINGS for IoT and SEWER for things that look really dodgy. I drive a (Seic) MG4 EV. I use the Home Assistant integration for that and put u…

Any chance someone one day will make a spyware-free OS I can run on my LG TV? It was pretty expensive and hardware wise is quite nice. Would love to be able to keep using it

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#396
How hard is it to flash the ROM of these TVs with something that doesn’t spy on people?

Feels like in the age of Claude Code the answer should be to strip out the evil side of the Faustian bargain of adtech-subsidized smart devices.

Hackers should not spend mental energy pulling apart the language of Satan’s PR department. That energy is better spent exorcizing the demons out of their devices.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#397
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Later, AcmeTV has a 1MB lookup table of wake words that can be updated OTA. Whenever a wake word is detected, it triggers an alert flag with the device id, word id, and timestamp, and then broadcasts it out as high-frequency sound through the speakers. Nearby, another AcmeTV or business partner device picks up the sound and sends it to AcmeHQ. The former device "never transmits your viewing behavior to Acme". The lat…

I endorse the cynicism, but I feel that's moving the goalposts a tad, from "good is impossible" to "good is improbable". Or, in a heavily-paraphrased nutshell: Politician: "Watch-words are ALWAYS evil-mode. They have to be lying." Terr: "No. Here's a watch-word which would be good-mode." Politician: "Well, it'll still *become* evil-mode, eventually."

Hmm, I see your point but I wasn't actually disagreeing with your post. I was just pointing out how something that starts innocuous and defensible can quickly spiral into dark patterns when the lawyers are properly incentivized to cover things up.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#398
post #366
post #222

A quixotic legal dream: All consumer data-surveillance must take the form of an opt-in monthly payment plan, which either side can cancel. So the TV gets advertised as "$$$, but basically $$ if you sign up to be surveilled and get a $/month check back." If the company sets $/month too low--or is too creepy about what they collect--people just won't opt-in. But what happens if they promise big pay-backs but routinely…

More like "a capitalism fever dream"

You can tell it isn't, because the people with all the capital have a reduced set of choices for screwing you over.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#399
Since lawyers just love engaging in language lawyering when things get to court and always use to most uncharitable interpretation of words, we have no choice but to interpret their words in the most uncharitable and technically correct fashion. In that context, let us examine their lawyer-drafted statement.

> LG smart TVs do not continuously record or transmit users’ conversations.

"or" is ambiguous in the English language. A lawyer can rightly argue that they mean exclusive or and thus they are being technically truthful as long as they both continuously record and transmit users' conversations. They can resolve this ambiguity by stating each element as a independent sentence.

"continuously" means without end. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as the recording can end in a single instance, then they are being technically truthful.

> Speech-to-text processing begins only if a user activates a voice interaction through a supported wake-word feature or by pressing the voice (or AI) button on the remote control.

"processing begins" makes no indication as to when it ends. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as you use a wake-word a single time or press the voice button on the remote control a single time, they can begin processing and never stop. They can resolve this ambiguity by stating that they only process audio during a session and that session has a strict maximum duration.

Also, it makes no statement as to audio processing, only speech-to-text processing. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as they do not convert the speech to text and just directly transmit the audio they are being truthful. They can resolve this ambiguity by removing the narrowly defined "speech-to-text" and changing it to "audio". Weird their lawyers made this so specific.

> Audio used for wake-word detection is processed locally on the TV and, if no wake word is detected, audio is not converted to text, stored, or transmitted.

Narrowly defined to be only "Audio used for wake-word detection". A lawyer can rightly argue that if they make a second copy of the audio that does not go to wake-word detection, then they can convert it to text, store, and transmit it. They can resolve this ambiguity by removing the narrowly defined "Audio used for wake-word detection" to just state that they do not convert to text, store, or transmit any audio outside of a session. Weird their lawyers made this so specific.

> Voice-recognition results and related technical logs may be generated as part of processing a voice command. These records are associated with specific voice interactions and do not indicate continuous recording of conversations occurring outside an active voice recognition session.

"These records ... do not indicate continuous recording" is not a denial that they are continuously recording. It merely states that it does not indicate continuous recording. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as they have at least one record that is not associated with a continuous recording, then they are being truthful. No need to remove ambiguity here as it would be covered by the above fixes.

> Speech-recognition results may be used to support voice-related features but are not uploaded later when the TV is offline or when connectivity is restored.

"but are not uploaded later when the TV is offline or when connectivity is restored". Again, "or". Only mentions later, no statement about "now". Their lawyers can rightly argue that as long as they upload them immediately they are being truthful.

"uploaded later when the TV is offline" is illogical nonsense, how is it uploading when it is offline? Their lawyers can rightly argue that as long as they upload later when the TV is online and the TV never lost connectivity, then they are being truthful.

They can remove the ambiguity by stating that they never upload the speech-recognition results or only retain them until the voice-related feature has completed the task. Weird how their lawyers made this so specific.

> ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV.

Again, "or". "uses" does not mean exclusively uses. "collect" only means ACR does not collect it. This does not indicate that screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings are not collected by other processes. It does not indicate that they do not use the resources collected by those other processes. They can remove the ambiguity by stating that ACR does not "use" these data sources and exclusively uses audio fingerprinting technology. Weird how their lawyers made this so specific.

Truly so odd how their lawyers make such precise, minute, and nuanced distinctions for their benefit, but leave everything else so ambiguous they can rightfully argue a tortured interpretation is technically truthful. If they were lawyers on behalf of the consumers, they would never accept such ambiguous language. Must be accidental.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#400
post #38

Remember that one time when music CDs from Sony MBG installed a rootkit on your PC that continuously sent whatever MP3s you had on your PC back to them?

Remember that time when NSA director James Clapper reassured us they're not the baddies.

"Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"

"No, sir."

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