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Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

latimes.com

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Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#201

Post by Ylpertnodi »

harshreality wrote: post #129

Maybe we need very clear, standardized signals for entering a surveillance zone (where someone not obviously present, possibly a corporate stooge or AI or simpler-than-AI automated detection system, is judging behavior) so that people realize that private behavior (like casually showing off guns to each other, safely, which I've seen done myself and was not cause for alarm—guns were legal) is no longer private. The s…

>Guns are generally legal, even in California. This is America, not the EU.

Guns are generally legal in the EU, too.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#202

Post by Rebelgecko »

morkalork wrote: post #191
ChrisArchitect wrote: post #188

Similar a few months back: Waymo reports teen riders for bad behavior and delivers them to the police https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48824010

Delivering sounds an awful lot like kidnapping..

In CA it's legal for regular citizens to detain someone if you think there's a reasonable public safety threat (but if you're wrong, you can obviously be in a lot of trouble)

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#203

Post by ryandrake »

michaelt wrote: post #158
mingus88 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m anti surveillance but I don’t get this take. Every uber driver I’ve been ive been in has an inside dashcam to protect themselves and their property. I would do the same thing if I were them. Waymo has every right to monitor their property and if someone does something illegal in their car why would they not report? An Uber driver would do the same, as would I. Otherwise you are an accomplice. This comparison to F…

> I’m anti surveillance but I don’t get this take. Some people foresee a future where self-driving cars are the norm. The big prize being fewer deaths on the road (about 40k people per year in the USA) which is a pretty big prize. If today's self-driving cars are heavy on the AI surveillance of passengers, and you foresee self-driving cars doing 90% of journeys within your lifetime, that's a pretty ominous situation.…

I would love it if self driving cars became the norm, and I could just hop into my car, doze off, and arrive at my destination. Key word being my car, and not Waymo's car. A future where every car is self driving is a utopia, but a future where every car is hired and actually owned by a company (spying on you) is a dystopia.

We should try to separate "self driving" from "owned and operated by someone else." One is good and one is very bad.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#204

Post by ryandrake »

mehjustmeh wrote: post #122
smt88 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. A human driver has to watch the road and can’t scrutinize a gun. And it’s also not easy to tell toys from real guns. Many cities illegalized toy guns on public transit because people were putting orange tips on real guns to make them look like toys. 3D-printed guns rarely look like they can actually fire, even though they can.

A human driver has a vested interest in determining if the person sitting behind them is holding a real gun or not.

Maybe I would change my mind if I were an actual Uber driver, but I'm thinking that I don't care if my passenger has a gun, as long as they're being safe and not pointing it at me. I've been around guns. They don't scare me. My job is to drive them from point A to point B. Why should I care if they are packing, or if they're underage drinking a beer, or if they're texting a mob boss about money laundering?

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#205

Post by ryandrake »

AngryData wrote: post #196
willsmith72 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mere presense of a gun shouldn't involve calling the cops Unless it's against the terms of service of the private corporation

If that was truly the only issue then it is a civil matter and the cops have no jurisdiction without a ruling from a judge. If I walk into a store with no shoes despite them requiring shoes, the first action isn't call the police and have the person arrested without saying anything.

Exactly. If Waymo wants to be weird and disallow people from legally or even illegally open carrying, then that should be between the customer and Waymo. They should not get to call the police.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#206

Post by Cider9986 »

coderintherye wrote: post #24
handwarmers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we shouldn't put the whole burden of world justice on Waymo, this allowing it a complete invasion of the privacy of both the people who use it and those who don't? Guy takes a drugged up girl on the train, should we hold the train responsible for the outcome also?

Public trains are covered in camera surveillance and that footage is very often used in conjunction with tracking down and prosecuting criminals. You should have no expectation of privacy on a public train.

I agree we should also add live facial recognition to train stations.

No expectation of privacy in public does not mean we should eliminate privacy from public areas or allow our government to engage in mass surveillance.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#207

Post by Cider9986 »

qwerpy wrote: post #73
iamnothere wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop at autonomous cars? New cars monitor drivers for “drowsiness” and have internal/external cameras. Why not monitor for guns too? Maybe they should even refuse to drive if you’re holding a gun! And why stop at cars? Maybe home cameras should call the cops if they see a weapon. Maybe your Apple Watch should detect if you’ve fired a gun. Brave new world!

I’m a gun owner, but I’d rather start saving lives now rather than doing nothing while theorizing about all the ridiculous things that could happen.

Guns don't cause violence. Just look at New Hampshire–lots of guns, low crime or violence.

Freedom is more important when we already have safety. People are trying to scare us into thinking we are unsafe so they can take away our freedom. We are very safe.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#208

Post by xnx »

kelnos wrote: post #3

I'm really torn on this. This particular situation, at face value at least, sounds like a good outcome. Kids had a gun, someone noticed, called police, situation handled without escalation or violence or something tragic happening. But this doesn't generalize. Another incident described in the article was when some kids were drinking in the car and shooting toy guns. What if they hadn't been drinking? What if they we…

> Most likely it was some sort of computer vision algorithm that flagged something.

Possible, but probably more likely they weren't wearing their seatbelts and then a Waymo remote support person saw the gun and immediately called police.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#209

Post by mixmastamyk »

UltraSane wrote: post #112
threecheese wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem that autonomous vehicles created. Why should we not complain that its solution is worse than non-autonomous travel, given it carries risk that doesn't exist today? Does Waymo benefit society enough to carry the tradeoffs? And what surveillance or other risks does this introduce outside of the cabin, and why should society allow that? What is the definition of modicum of detection, and who is drawing…

> Does Waymo benefit society enough to carry the tradeoffs? It absolutely does 1000x. You can also just not use it.

They snap me crossing the street almost daily, nothing I can do about since sometimes they take me by surprise.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#210

Post by numpad0 »

mehjustmeh wrote: post #122
smt88 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. A human driver has to watch the road and can’t scrutinize a gun. And it’s also not easy to tell toys from real guns. Many cities illegalized toy guns on public transit because people were putting orange tips on real guns to make them look like toys. 3D-printed guns rarely look like they can actually fire, even though they can.

A human driver has a vested interest in determining if the person sitting behind them is holding a real gun or not.

You literally can't tell. You can tell by touching or by extreme close inspection if you have had held examples of both by subtle process/cultural differences, or by racking if you have done so in the past in either or both, due to major internal differences. But if you think toy guns are like nerf guns painted in black, then you just can't. It's not an easy tell like wrong corner rounding on Apple lookalike aluminium chassis.
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