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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

tomshardware.com

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#81

Post by hdgvhicv »

Phemist wrote: post #37
illusive4080 wrote: post #26

Easy solution. Do not connect your TV to the internet.

Also debunked in the Gamer Nexus video. The TV will scan for public wifis and connect. Watching the video, it also seemed like a "missed opportunity" for LG to not create a mesh network of LG devices that would help eachother connect to the internet. So the LG device on your neighbours wifi might help your not connected TV to some tasty internet access. Or at least to unload its cache of A(V)CR fingerprints. LG is tr…

There are so many misunderstandings about that video. Which ain’t surprising as it was longer than a movie and mainly nonsense about what it can do rather than what it does do.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#82

Post by hdgvhicv »

newsoftheday wrote: post #75
bubblemoth wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the television would search for unsecured wi-fi or other ways of connecting to the internet without user input.

I agree, it would be easy for a security research to discover if a TV tried to do that and would result in an even greater stuffstorm than LG is dealing with now or that Samsung dealt with in the past.

More advertising money (the irony) by conflating capabilities of a Turing complete OS with actual behaviour

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#84

Post by hdgvhicv »

dd8601fn wrote: post #65
klausa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just straight up false. OLED productions costs have fallen, and the yields have gotten better — displays of all kinds have gotten cheaper, not just TVs; OLEDs have started showing up in products they haven’t before for cost reasons, etc. The manufacturers make some profit on the data they harvest, sure; but the biggest BOM costs of TVs have definitely also dropped sharply.

The margin on tvs is slim. Companies like Vizio make vastly more on the ads and data than they do on the tvs. Some quarters they even take a loss. They took a $7m bath on hardware while booking about $120m on ads and data. We’re never getting good tv’s back. It’s only going to get worse. Now they’re starting in on monitors. The only lifeline would be consumer protection, which obviously won’t happen in the US.

So they shouldn’t bother selling the TVs at all?

When they spend 400 on a tv and sell it for 410 and sell the data for 40 it doesn’t mean the data makes 4 times as much as the tv. The cost of gathering that data is still 400, they have nothing to sell without spending 409 in the hardware.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#85

Post by dpkirchner »

Koshcheiushko wrote: post #79

I've one question: I've used android phone (realme, which is chinese). And i remember that whenever we used to discuss somethings among our friends, i started used to get ads realated to that on my laptop, phone within atmost a hour. So, was realme transcribing all conversations and uploading it? Can someone answer?

I don't know, but I suspect the battery drain would be substantial. I wonder if there is a different explanation: maybe one of your friends searched for information on the topic while you were on the same hotspot/in the same location and that (along with existing relationship graphs?) allowed them to target you? That's how I'd do it, I think.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#86

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

> ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology

so they aren't even denying listening in on everything?

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#87

Post by otterley »

bubblemoth wrote: post #31
illusive4080 wrote: post #26

Easy solution. Do not connect your TV to the internet.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the television would search for unsecured wi-fi or other ways of connecting to the internet without user input.

It’s absolutely unreasonable. Each subscriber has a certain amount of fixed bandwidth available to them, and there are other devices connected to their network. By connecting an unauthorized device, that device now has both the ability to consume bandwidth to which it’s not entitled, and potentially scan the network for vulnerabilities.

It’s basically stealing.

Would you want some device connecting to your network that is not under your control?

And before you answer “well, you should lock it down,” yes, that’s true, but we do not blame the victim if they fail to do so. An unlocked door is not an invitation.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#88

Post by j45 »

Leaving TVs disconnected from the internet is the only way to ignore this.

Connect your own devices and smarts to it.

A broader issue is that it does any kind of recording, or processing of the signals around the tv (from a microphone) or what is displayed on the tv (image) is both extremely private.

Privacy has been violated by LG according to their own wording. a way that is not controlled by settings.

What might LG want with an anonymized hash of the audio being played or shown on someone's screen?

Existing ad matching technology can link it with the video of what you're watching to build a shadow profile of you and then sell the attention of your eyeballs to advertising.

From there, simply what you watch, at what time, for how long roughly sets up a wonderful demographic of age, gender, interests, and all that fun stuff. This is an area of tv and video advertisign that has existed for a long time including online and cable tv boxes.

LG's statement that it doesn't move your info anywhere about what is being watched via audio seems to be a variant of this. Using the audio fingerprint, their software could request an ad for it from another system and direction.

So your information may not leave the TV indirectly, but thsi type of a mechanism does exist in cable tv boxes, etc.

With TVs absorbing the OTT (set top box) functions they are absorbing this too so their claims of how big their market is probably tied to being able to sell advertising into that ecosystem.

It’s likely an unadvertised function only for the benefit and leverage of LG and may be buried in signing your life away to use their “smart” tv functions as well.

A tiny crack in LG tvs can be an attack vector for security and safety. Whether it's audio, or video, or anything.

The best TV is a dumb tv, with all internet disabled and plug in your own smarts that you can hopefully manage better.

A brand is a promise of an experience. This brand has broken a promise and it can’t be pretending it didn’t.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#90

Post by VPenkov »

Koshcheiushko wrote: post #79

I've one question: I've used android phone (realme, which is chinese). And i remember that whenever we used to discuss somethings among our friends, i started used to get ads realated to that on my laptop, phone within atmost a hour. So, was realme transcribing all conversations and uploading it? Can someone answer?

Wired wrote an article in 2017 [1] on whether it's possible/probable to do that. Technology has evolved a lot since then, so it's a lot more feasible, but the article describes how far metadata alone can go.

For example, let's say an ad network knows your and your friends' location, and knows you've met because you've been close together frequently, or are using the same wifi network. You talk about perfumes, then later one of them looks up perfumes on their phone. Google would usually have access to this much metadata, and will likely serve you perfume ads because of your friend who later looked it up.

This doesn't directly answer your question though. The answer would be - it's possible, but a lot is possible without that.

[1] https://archive.is/OyuUO

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