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A misalignment of AI in mathematics

mathandai.org

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Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#781
post #194

As a mathematician maybe I am a little more optimistic than this declaration. I am thinking of Mochizuki's abc conjecture: He worked in relative isolation, and dumped a huge incomprehensible proof on the community (to oversimplify a bit). That's not totally unlike what might happen if AI generates a huge, incomprehensible proof of let's say RH. Well, what is the result? In the Mochizuki case, it was a lot of skeptici…

But Mochizuki didn't actually prove anything, whereas the labs have already done so.

The pessimistic scenario is the AI labs will continuously hoover up new developments in mathematics and gazump everyone in their respective fields. It's clear they have no desire to participate in any silly academic niceties, like properly assigning credit or expository work for normal humans. What incentive then do humans have to do this work ?

Generally the mood amongst research mathematicians is pretty dire, and I don't really blame them.

To be clear I think AI is super useful for mathematical research, the problem is the methods of the big labs are massively disincentivising mathematicians from engaging in research, and other associated tasks like giving seminar, teaching writing books etc. These arguably have much more value than finding an obscure counter example to Navier-Stokes.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#782
post #194

As a mathematician maybe I am a little more optimistic than this declaration. I am thinking of Mochizuki's abc conjecture: He worked in relative isolation, and dumped a huge incomprehensible proof on the community (to oversimplify a bit). That's not totally unlike what might happen if AI generates a huge, incomprehensible proof of let's say RH. Well, what is the result? In the Mochizuki case, it was a lot of skeptici…

It’s frustrating that this comment is at the top because it, along with lots of the replies it inspired, absolutely misrepresents the actual declaration. The declaration is not making any statements about not using any AI in mathematics. The entire point is to push the use of the technology in a direction which is compatible with positive pre-existing features of the math community, and to make it better known what s…

Yes, thank you. The demise of basic reading comprehension skills will be the true end of us all.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement is not about AI but about the behaviour of AI companies. OpenAI have put vast resource into solving open maths problems: many millions of dollars of compute just on the Navier-Stokes result, plus whatever they spent on the broader Millenium Prize problems initiative and the other results they have published. Anthropic are doing the same. The statement is asking them to stop doing this. AI companies are…

> primarily as a marketing exercise Like the mathematicians working on famous problems in private until they could claim full credit for something interesting wasn't also a marketing exercise for their own careers. The commercial value (or lack thereof) of a proof doesn't depend on whether it was done by a human or a machine.

> Like the mathematicians working on famous problems in private

This is an extremely rare situation that practically never happens. Most mathematical research is done in the open, with partial results being published, conferences where approaches are discussed, collaborations... The Navier-Stokes solution is a great example: the approach that OpenAI ended up using was something that two mathematicians had proposed previously and was being studied and followed by several others, with different sub-paths within the same approach.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans still have brains (and thus human intellect) even in the presence of AI... Even today, people make varying use of their brains.

But what use will be their brains to others if a machine can do the thinking instead for a fraction of cost?

Whatever they feel like putting them to, instead of whatever they are forced to put them to to earn their living?

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people still make bad music that other people still manage to enjoy (a lot of it has gone multi-platinum!) even though they're not Mozart or Bach.

This would be valid if we didn’t live in under capitalism, which reduces the way we spend our time down to dollars and cents.

Correct. So burn down capitalism, not AI?

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#786

There's an unpopular branch of mathematics which does not have infinities - finiteism.[1] The constructive version of finitism takes the position that there is no such thing as infinity, just arbitrarily large upper bounds. You can have theorems about arbitrarily large numbers, but you never get 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 ... = 2 The benefit of finitism is that it escapes undecidability. The big objection to finiteism is th…

It seems to 'not have infinities' by ignoring them. How many prime numbers are there? How many digits does the square root of two have? I guess you can simplify life by ignoring that stuff and sticking to what is 7x8.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#787
It reminds me of Frédéric Bastiat's Candle Makers' Petition. It satirised protectionism in the 1800s:

>We candlemakers are suffering from the unfair competition of a foreign rival. This for­eign manufacturer of light has such an advantage over us that he floods our domestic markets with his product. And he offers it at a fantastically low price. The moment this foreigner appears in our country, all our customers de­sert us and turn to him. As a re­sult, an entire domestic industry is rendered completely stagnant. And even more, since the lighting industry has countless ramifica­tions with other native industries, they, too, are injured. This foreign manufacturer who competes against us without mercy is none other than the sun itself!

>Here is our petition: Please pass a law ordering the closing of all windows, skylights, shutters, cur­tains, and blinds... https://fee.org/articles/the-candlemakers-petition/

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#788
post #787

It reminds me of Frédéric Bastiat's Candle Makers' Petition. It satirised protectionism in the 1800s: >We candlemakers are suffering from the unfair competition of a foreign rival. This for­eign manufacturer of light has such an advantage over us that he floods our domestic markets with his product. And he offers it at a fantastically low price. The moment this foreigner appears in our country, all our customers de­s…

Not even vaguely related to the point being made in the statement.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#789
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that Tao is among the largest proponents of using AI in mathematics? The usage itself is not the point here.

Tao doesn't go as far as Baudelaire, but there are some similarities. In particular, Tao has criticized that AI is not being used to create new interesting conjectures, and that the rush to prove old conjectures is not giving human mathematicians enough time to carefully analyze and understand the proofs and the methods used in those proofs. My answer to both is the same: nothing stops mathematicians from doing both…

There are no similarities whatsoever, other than them having opinions on a new tech that affects their field.

> nothing stops mathematicians from doing both of those things

Actually yes, and they explain that pretty clearly in the letter. These problems have been used as "goals" not because the solutions are necessarily worth it, but because they set a clear direction whose process would probably yield very useful theories, and also more conjectures and problems. If the goals get solved by AI models that do not generate comprehension, then the direction gets less clear, it's harder to collaborate and get funding (think what would be easier, to get funding to try and solve Navier-Stokes or to try and understand an already proven Navier-Stokes?), and we get less open problems to work on.

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