Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

researchagenda.news

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 310 posts

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#231

Post by teiferer »

meowface wrote: post #210
teiferer wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neither, but just running around accusing random folks of things is not going to help. To the contrary. If a real author doing real work with a lot of effort risks being accused of things they didn't do and just dismissed, you'll get less of genuine content, not more.

I will donate $100 to charity if I made a false accusation. (It's possible AI rewrote an article first written by a human here or whatever, but the point is that I can just tell this is mostly or entirely LLM output.)

> I will donate $100 to charity if I made a false accusation

That's honorable but not how accusations work. There is a first level indirect effect of painting somebody in a light that damages the reputation of their work or their person which isn't reversed by a donation or a sorry or anything since retractions/corrections/apologies don't get the same public attention. And there is a broader effect of chilling what people do since they don't want to get falsely accused.

I'd recommend keeping such suspicions to oneself unless there is unrefutable proof, and if there is, then please provide it.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#232

Post by alex_suzuki »

chairleader wrote: post #74

I think this notion of friction vs frictionless is one of the key features of this time in history. To my eye, the whole line from personal technology in the 80s -> through UX on the internet -> through app platform lock-in -> through subscription-centric "ownership" have been providing us all with the promise that we can buy our way into less friction. The next device or subscription solves problems or enables us on…

This resonates with me so much.

One thing I personally have noticed is that very result-oriented people seem to be vastly more optimistic about AI since for them it’s all about getting from A to B as quickly as possible, and AI broadly seems to promise that.

Conversely, the people who find joy in what they do, and see the journey and its frustrations as fulfilling and full of learning, tend to be more pessimistic or disillusioned.

(sample size maybe N ~8-10, all SWE)

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#233

Post by teiferer »

meowface wrote: post #207
teiferer wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually read the article? They point out multiple times that they like the Waymo ride and would use one again and loved it. It's not a Waymo-bashing article, it cautions against the long term effects on research. And here you have it — I used an LLM-ism. Oh, and now another one! Time to downvote me for supposed LLM use! (Which I obviously didn't, I'm typing this on an ancient smartphone waiting for a train,…

You actually didn't. The construct is slightly different. I use LLMs all day every day. I think they're great. I just don't like humans who put their name to what an LLM did.

> You actually didn't. The construct is slightly different.

Well I know that I did, so you are wrong with that claim, which sheds a strong (negative) light on other statements of fact that you posted in this discussion.

You may disagree with me, or I may even have gotten something wrong, but just claiming I didn't read the article ... sorry man, I thought HN had higher standards than that.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#234

Post by roarcher »

otoburb wrote: post #211
NichoPaolucci wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, oddly similar thing happened to me. Anecdotally, I was working with a non-developer. She was building a reporting dashboard with Claude. I pointed out that the system she built was using the filesystem to store one line notes about the report, and I said "I would probably tell the agent to use a database for that, but it's not the end of the world if it works". And she replied "Claude said the developer's right,…

>> I'm not against fact checking, but it absolutely felt like a punch in the gut coming from a non-dev. There was no "trust" there. She couldn't rely on my expertise, she had to go back to her "source of truth" (Claude) and asked for a second opinion on something that she wouldn't be able to verify. This is probably how physicians feel when informed patients (whether using LLMs or not) ask questions (good or bad) dur…

I would love to be able to trust that a doctor knows more about my problem than I do, but every time I see one they clearly haven't even read the information I just told the nurse 15 minutes ago.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#235

Post by 1euehe »

simianwords wrote: post #81
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

I think it is amazing and it will democratise information. A lot of times the concept ends up being simple with a lot of jargon exists as a gatekeeping method. Well of course the incumbents wouldn't like that rando from outside gets to understand and speak about things they worked on for many years. Sure he doesn't get it right 100% but he's in the correct direction.

Another delusional take.

What exactly have you done with this quote on quote free access to information?

Informational accessibility is/was pretty much a solved problem. What llm’s now do is let amateurs think they can easily become experts.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#236

Post by tty456 »

varjag wrote: post #41
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

Yup, the arrogance when barging into unfamiliar domain that was previously reserved mainly to physics grads seems to have spread everywhere. I also had people opining on my expert area via their LLMs and the problem is they can't even ask the model the right question, let alone evaluate the nuance of their answer.

Hilarious. Do they preface the conversation with "Well, Claude said..."?

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#237

Post by teiferer »

sdthjbvuiiijbb wrote: post #219
teiferer wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually read the article? They point out multiple times that they like the Waymo ride and would use one again and loved it. It's not a Waymo-bashing article, it cautions against the long term effects on research. And here you have it — I used an LLM-ism. Oh, and now another one! Time to downvote me for supposed LLM use! (Which I obviously didn't, I'm typing this on an ancient smartphone waiting for a train,…

Calling it "witch hunting" is just dishonest. That term implies a baseless overreaction to a heavily exaggerated or imagined threat. That's hardly what's going on here. Unlike witches, AI slop really is everywhere and it's pretty clear that this article is slop. I find complaining about AI callouts to be itself deeply distasteful although it would take some thought to put my finger on the exact reasons why.

Yes AI slop is prevalent. But the casualties that get thrown under the bus are also real, don't you agree? Is it really worth it to sacrifice those? In the name of the larger good?

I'm arguing that we're losing something by doing so, as a community.

> I find complaining about AI callouts

If they are correct then I'm all for it. But just suspicions turned into statements of fact are not helping anybody. People used em dashes before LLMs Not nearly as much as LLMs, but superficially judging people isn't doing any good.

I'd compare this with pitchforks coming out agains criminal immigrants. Yes, some immigrants are criminal. Doesn't mean that if you stand in central Copenhagen and have a dark skinned person in front of you that it's a criminal.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#239

Post by zzzeek »

NichoPaolucci wrote: post #200
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

Wow, oddly similar thing happened to me. Anecdotally, I was working with a non-developer. She was building a reporting dashboard with Claude. I pointed out that the system she built was using the filesystem to store one line notes about the report, and I said "I would probably tell the agent to use a database for that, but it's not the end of the world if it works". And she replied "Claude said the developer's right,…

wow that wouldnt feel like a gut punch at all to me, it's normal for inexperienced people to not really understand what kinds of knowledge experts have or don't. I certainly come back from doctors appointments and google/gemini chat for whatever came up to get more detail. this person going to claude and getting immediate confirmation that you were exactly correct should have felt great, she would be like "wow, this guy's good, huh."

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#240

Post by jayd16 »

NichoPaolucci wrote: post #200
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

Wow, oddly similar thing happened to me. Anecdotally, I was working with a non-developer. She was building a reporting dashboard with Claude. I pointed out that the system she built was using the filesystem to store one line notes about the report, and I said "I would probably tell the agent to use a database for that, but it's not the end of the world if it works". And she replied "Claude said the developer's right,…

To be generous, it seems like the most natural way to phrase what happened. The non-developer punched in "should this be a database instead?" and it will say "You are right to question it! I was sloppy when .. blah blah blah blah blah"

I doubt the human went into a whole diatribe with the CLI about how the developer on the project with this many years was saying this or that but she wanted Claude to second guess them.

It's just saying "ah yeah, that went through without issue."

Post reply on HN