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Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

bbc.com

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Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#51

Post by petesergeant »

shawnz wrote: post #28
nkoren wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved from the US to the UK, the use of quotation marks in news headlines was something that confused me. In the US, these would be "scare quote", with the quotation marks basically standing in for the words "so-called". In the UK, that is NOT their meaning. The quotation marks mean "we are not ourselves in a position to verify this, but it is the words that a source has told us". Very different meaning -- and…

Is it really a different meaning? Isn't the implication that they tried, and failed, to independently verify the claim?

No, it's a statement of who is making the claim.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#52

Post by computomatic »

sonotathrowaway wrote: post #37
briffle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most large tankers are too large for both the Suez and Panama Canals.

There are tankers built specifically for the Suez Canal

Suezmax tankers, panamax, etc. Anything bigger needs to go around

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#53

Post by fabian2k »

eagleal wrote: post #40
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will this bring oil prices down in Europe ... This will not help Asia This hurts Europe more than Asia. The UK, France, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, and others are similarly opposed to the Houthis having conducted airstrikes on the Houthis (eg. 2025) as well as helping target them directly or indirectly. And a large portion of global shipping is owned by Greek conglomerates - a country that is a close ally of Israe…

Yeah the EU leadership has been really shortsighted on these past decades (especially since the 10s), especially in their strategic energy and industrial sectors. Be it the Ukranian conflict, the ME crisis, the NA wars and instabilities, etc. The EU is the one that geopolitically speaking lost the most. Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests, I simply do not understand how they could leave foreign actors t…

It was cheaper, I don't think it's much more complex than that. And with fossil fuels, countries without significant local production are always dependent on someone else, with most potential suppliers being problematic in some way.

Of course we should have gone for renewable energy more forcefully, but that wouldn't have resolved the issue. That change will take time, and you can't arbitrarily accelerate it.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#54

Post by amiga386 »

lkey wrote: post #39
nayroclade wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely standard journalistic practice when reporting a quote on something that is currently contentious or unproven. For example, consider the two hypothetical headlines: Activists decry police murder of protester Activists decry police "murder" of protester The first implies that the police murdering the protestor is an established fact. The second makes it clear that it is the activists who used the ter…

Both versions are fancifully direct in our era a media+police stenography, try: Mayor denounces "radical activists" rioting and damaging city property in response to an officer-involved incident that resulted in one fatal kinetic altercation with a "loud and provocatively dressed" man.

> officer-involved incident

Ah, the past exonerative tense. https://archive.is/wPVdy

Read McSweeney's guide to ambiguous grammar, where they lead you step by step from the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog to the ultimate say-nothing sentence speed was involved in a jumping-related incident while a fox was brown, and the punchline is you can then translate "the St Louis County Police Department was involved in an officer-involved shooting after officers came under heavy gunfire" to "a police officer shot a black person" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Michael_Brown)

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-...

But no, that's the language issued by police departments covering their asses. Journalists are a little bit covering their asses in making clear what is a quote and what isn't, but they're still responsible for what they choose to quote, and to be clear on whether they have verified the claims they're quoting.

Ideally, unverified claims shouldn't even be in an article. But when there _has_ been some kind of stramash, they just don't know who did what, the need to rush out an article to get clicks means they'll just quote both sides and try to give them equal prominence until they can do more verification.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#55

Post by markvdb »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #10

Will this bring oil prices down in Europe? Oil tankers could still go to the mediteranian via the suez canal. This will not help asia, but I can imagine if it is too dangerous the go through bab al-mandab strait it is more lucrative to sell the crude oil to europe at a discount?

No. A cynic might think a significant part of this half-arsed Iran war was:

- make sure fuel prices increase globally

- The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela.

- export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits.

- further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sectors, steal market share. Oh well, small gift to China here too, but still a net win for the US.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#56

Post by wat10000 »

blitzar wrote: post #44
afavour wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s in quotation marks because it’s a quotation. The BBC have not independently verified that the Houthis have taken control of the island, they are reporting what a government source has said.

They need to start doing this when other "regimes" make wild claims.

They always have.

It's funny to see the evolution of language. Quotation marks indicated that something was a direct quote. Then people started to use them as a sarcasm indicator. Now we're to the point where people can't even recognize them as indicating a direct quote.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#57

Post by watwut »

markvdb wrote: post #55
littlecranky67 wrote: post #10

Will this bring oil prices down in Europe? Oil tankers could still go to the mediteranian via the suez canal. This will not help asia, but I can imagine if it is too dangerous the go through bab al-mandab strait it is more lucrative to sell the crude oil to europe at a discount?

No. A cynic might think a significant part of this half-arsed Iran war was: - make sure fuel prices increase globally - The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela. - export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits. - further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sect…

I just dont think these guy are even capable to plan that much.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#58

Post by hebelehubele »

markvdb wrote: post #55
littlecranky67 wrote: post #10

Will this bring oil prices down in Europe? Oil tankers could still go to the mediteranian via the suez canal. This will not help asia, but I can imagine if it is too dangerous the go through bab al-mandab strait it is more lucrative to sell the crude oil to europe at a discount?

No. A cynic might think a significant part of this half-arsed Iran war was: - make sure fuel prices increase globally - The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela. - export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits. - further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sect…

The US sells oil and refined products to other countries. So a supply crunch would raise prices even there too. Everyday Americans are not getting fuel for cheap.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#59

Post by Tuna-Fish »

eagleal wrote: post #40
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will this bring oil prices down in Europe ... This will not help Asia This hurts Europe more than Asia. The UK, France, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, and others are similarly opposed to the Houthis having conducted airstrikes on the Houthis (eg. 2025) as well as helping target them directly or indirectly. And a large portion of global shipping is owned by Greek conglomerates - a country that is a close ally of Israe…

Yeah the EU leadership has been really shortsighted on these past decades (especially since the 10s), especially in their strategic energy and industrial sectors. Be it the Ukranian conflict, the ME crisis, the NA wars and instabilities, etc. The EU is the one that geopolitically speaking lost the most. Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests, I simply do not understand how they could leave foreign actors t…

Aren't those really easy to explain?

EU opposes the Houthis because they are a horrifying slave state that distributes children as sex slaves to their troops.

EU opposes Russia because it is a horrifying fascist dictatorship that has repeatedly invaded it's neighbors, and constantly talks about it's historical claims to EU territory.

In the NA conflicts it's harder to draw such a clear line, because the conflicts typically have about 15 sides each, but the basic algorithm you can use is generally that EU tries very hard to pick sides based on morality, not geopolitical interests.

Re: Houthis 'take control' of key island in global shipping route

#60

Post by p-e-w »

watwut wrote: post #57
markvdb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A cynic might think a significant part of this half-arsed Iran war was: - make sure fuel prices increase globally - The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela. - export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits. - further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sect…

I just dont think these guy are even capable to plan that much.

Then you probably believe that the US government only consists of the half dozen clowns you see on TV every day.
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