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The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

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Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#81

Post by simianwords »

Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

I think it is amazing and it will democratise information. A lot of times the concept ends up being simple with a lot of jargon exists as a gatekeeping method. Well of course the incumbents wouldn't like that rando from outside gets to understand and speak about things they worked on for many years. Sure he doesn't get it right 100% but he's in the correct direction.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#82

Post by conductr »

FWIW, this same thing is happening in regular corporate America too. I have all kinds of non-CPA, non-finance background people telling me how I should treat financial transactions, without the nuance of GAAP or how an auditor would handle their reasoning. Everyone has an opinion on what our tech teams should/could allow or enable or create, without understanding the security implications and support it would require or what other projects are already working on.

It’s good in a way, because you can certainly challenge people’s answer when an idea gets shot down. But it’s also a bit exhausting that everyone is challenging everything all the time.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#84

Post by torginus »

Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

> I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, with conviction.

Oh my god, physicist code is evolving!

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#85

Post by alcomatt »

varjag wrote: post #41
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

Yup, the arrogance when barging into unfamiliar domain that was previously reserved mainly to physics grads seems to have spread everywhere. I also had people opining on my expert area via their LLMs and the problem is they can't even ask the model the right question, let alone evaluate the nuance of their answer.

like a prosthetic dunning-kruger....

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#86

Post by torginus »

conductr wrote: post #67
varjag wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, the arrogance when barging into unfamiliar domain that was previously reserved mainly to physics grads seems to have spread everywhere. I also had people opining on my expert area via their LLMs and the problem is they can't even ask the model the right question, let alone evaluate the nuance of their answer.

As an unfamiliar, I find it interesting how you specifically called out physics grads in the pre-LLM era. Is that just snark or is there some widespread truth / stereotype of that behavior?

If you are very smart, and/or have an incredibly high tolerance for pain/repetition, you can solve amazingly complex issues, with awful code.

Both of these statements are true for physicists

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#87

Post by watwut »

mosura wrote: post #39
watwut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article: someone enjoys being alone in the car, because they dont want to talk and find it impossible to be in the same space as other people without talking. And apparently end up arguing over radio each time they are on the 20min long car drive or something. I think I would prefer to be alone rather with them too based on that.

So basically you don’t understand english and/or don’t have the life experience to understand the context of the article. But you are very angry about it. Being able to avoid people like you is the entire selling point. No wonder it annoys you.

I am not angry about article. I am saying that following claims are bullshit:

1.) the primary use and appeal of AI is to use it to avoid the negative side effects imposed on you by other people.

2.) people with the biggest problems with AI are those that survive by imposing themselves on others in unnecessary ways

3.) so many bureaucrats are so enthused about regulating it.

The article car example was stupid nonsense, but not angering. It was overly long tho. Other people in discussion guess this was ai generated and it is indeed quite possible.

> No wonder it annoys you.

What annoys me are people who are a.) unable to be silent and projecting it on others b.) who somehow always end up in inane arguments wherever they go. Article author literally described himself as such.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#88

Post by cucumber3732842 »

zzzeek wrote: post #70
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

it's hard to gauge this take without specifics. My experience with LLMs tends to be towards the opposite concept; LLMs dissuading me of hunches and notions I have about things (where I have no particular expertise; societal-level things), saving me and others time and strife having an argument about something they were actually right about all along, as my internal doubts that I'm too embarrassed to bring up (because…

>it's hard to gauge this take without specifics. My experience with LLMs tends to be towards the opposite concept; LLMs dissuading me of hunches and notions I have about things (where I have no particular expertise; societal-level things), saving me and others time and strife having an argument about something they were actually right about all along, as my internal doubts that I'm too embarrassed to bring up (because these things aren't my field) are confirmed as incorrect.

You can do this with any subject.

The LLM is trained in part on a decade of shitty online comments and vapid professional correspondance. If you frame whatever you're asking about in a direction that would offend the sensibilities of the kind of people and ideas that are over-represented in that content it will hem and haw and drag its feet and whatnot.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#89

Post by fidotron »

conductr wrote: post #67
varjag wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, the arrogance when barging into unfamiliar domain that was previously reserved mainly to physics grads seems to have spread everywhere. I also had people opining on my expert area via their LLMs and the problem is they can't even ask the model the right question, let alone evaluate the nuance of their answer.

As an unfamiliar, I find it interesting how you specifically called out physics grads in the pre-LLM era. Is that just snark or is there some widespread truth / stereotype of that behavior?

Physics, and to a large degree pure mathematics, has attracted a critical mass of the personality type that needs to feel like the smartest person in the room in any given situation. It has given them a slightly notorious reputation in academia.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#90

Post by alcomatt »

simianwords wrote: post #81
Frost1x wrote: post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

I think it is amazing and it will democratise information. A lot of times the concept ends up being simple with a lot of jargon exists as a gatekeeping method. Well of course the incumbents wouldn't like that rando from outside gets to understand and speak about things they worked on for many years. Sure he doesn't get it right 100% but he's in the correct direction.

I very much doubt it will do that because access to that information was already available to anyone who wanted to know. It was not a secret. All AI did was to provide it via single interface, for a fee - which strangely do not go back to the original source of the knowledge, but to the AI company these days. This is not democratisation of information, it's commodification of it.
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