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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#381

Post by Aperocky »

tyre wrote: post #223
bluGill wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. As a C+++ programmer Rust has some things that intrigue me. However I have no desire to rewrite everything in rust and so interoperability has been what is holding me back. We rewrote everything a few years back, completing in 2014 (Rust 1.0 came in 2015) - it costs nearly a billion dollars! I cannot in good conscience go back to management and ask for another billion dollars to rewrite again (Rust might be mor…

What were you working on that cost a billion dollars to rewrite? Or was that hyperbole?

I'd say you only pay 10% of the cost when you finish/launch the re-written software. The other 90% of cost comes later in the format of operations, deprecation and migration, people both users and devs, community friction and learning cost.

And that 90% could be an underestimate here.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#383

Post by eviks »

vablings wrote: post #74
bigfishrunning wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the only domains that I think rust isn't suitable for are: * rapid-prototyping, where javascript and python are still top-tier * adding scriptability to existing programs, where lua and scheme (and python) are popular * Server-side API implementation (rust is usable here, but I think Go fits the slot better)

Rapid prototyping is almost a meme at this point. If you are hand rolling code old school, you will waste more time shoehorning JavaScript and python semantics into rust code and end up with worse quality that takes more time rather than writing it from rust. People did this a lot when rust was not as popular but there are plenty of very good rust programmers now who understand the language and can make programs that…

> Script ability can also be done in rust, > Notably Zed ... the plugins are compiled to WASM, sandboxed and loaded.

It notably doesn't have any plugins relevant in this scripting context. It only has themes/language syntax/servers, nothing about actual editing

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#385

Post by imp0cat »

tigerlily wrote: post #367
andsoitis wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh boy, maybe geometry intuitions and spatial reasoning are what's really needed.

Or maybe a nice sabbatical aboard a sailboat expedition.

Or maybe not, because that's where confusing 180 and 360 degrees or headwind and tailwing will REALLY bite you.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#386

Post by hn_submit »

el_benhameen wrote: post #319
hn_submit wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally a big fan of garbage collected languages. It's just unfortunate that Microsoft chose C# not to be Ahead-of-Time (AOT) compiled but running on a virtual machine like Java (after which it was modeled after). Alas, that ship has sailed and Rust has many interesting features so I'm comfy with it taking over the role of C/C++ over the next decades.

Native AOT with C#/.net has come a long way, fwiw. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati...

Some deployments can be AOT compiled (ASP.NET, mobile), others (like WinForms, WPF) cannot. That makes it confusing and fickle since not all language features work with AOT.

Microsoft needs to choose for AOT Full Monty and leave the CLR behind.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#387

Post by wood_spirit »

odo1242 wrote: post #298
estebank wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A headwind makes it harder to advance in the direction you're going. I think you might have meant to say "there is a strong tailwind towards memory safety".

> A headwind makes it harder to advance in the direction you're going nit: except in aviation

Surely a headwind makes an aircraft travel slower over the ground so it takes longer to reach the destination?

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#388

Post by vrighter »

tialaramex wrote: post #327
jandrewrogers wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recommendation is qualified for typical apps that do not have extreme performance or scale requirements. They use Java for many, many things. C++ is still indicated for systems that are optimizing for performance and scalability characteristics, since it intrinsically requires a lot of "unsafe" constructs.

> C++ is still indicated for systems that are optimizing for performance The only evidence I've seen for this is that people with a vested interest in my believing this keep saying it is true. That's the exact same evidence I have for Trump having triumphed in Iran. Do better if you want me to believe you. > since it intrinsically requires a lot of "unsafe" constructs. This is an excellent reason to choose Rust. The…

I heard that unsafe rust is then unsafer than c++. I haven't learned rust yet, and I get that it's a tradeoff because the rest of the system can still be relied on. But how true is that first statement?

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#390

Post by alkonaut »

Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI. That and full self driving - including the nuances of gesturing to a human about who's going to reverse in a single lane in a snowstorm.

But if 50% of code can be converted automatically to safe idiomatic Rust? Great. Doesn't sound too far fetched. But yes, there's certainly a long tail here.

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