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DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

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Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it reads like pure propaganda. Anthropic really wants us to think that they've made something sentient. I think that's really dangerous.

Marketing, like Volvo cars being safer etc

From all I can tell, Volvo's cars are safer.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#172

It's so refreshing to see DeepSeek's tech report[1] full of juicy details; meanwhile, something like Fable's system card[2] is like 70% "safety", 10% "model welfare" to make sure little Claude isn't distressed, and 20% benchmark numbers. [1]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/... [2]: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-fable-5-1-mythos-5-1-system...

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Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#173
post #20

As I also said on Twitter - it really amazes me how fearless Deepseek are. Every single model release is packed with new and crazy clever ideas and somehow, they always commit to training them at near frontier scale. I know everybody wants the tell all story of the clever ideas that were developed over the last ~3 years at Anthropic and OpenAI, but what I really want to thumb through is DeepSeek's notebook of "brilli…

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Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#174

Significant jump in pricing. V4 Flash was $0.16/M out, 4.1 is $1.20/M.

Never saw $0.16 for 1M output tokens - it was $0.28 a month ago, $0.66 off-peak and $1.32 peak last week, now it is reduced a bit to $0.6 and $1.2

Was looking at OpenRouter, I guess it’s wrong.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#175

I think it's very clear that DeepSeek is obviously the best AI lab in the world. Every model release seems like it packed with wonderful research and advancements.

On top of that, they don't make all BS statements or malicious tricks used by some unnamed entities.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#176
post #146

I'm confused, what do they mean when they say they reduced prices? DeepSeek v4 flash is $0.10 / $0.25 as opposed to this v4.1 bump which is $0.30 / $1.20

This is supposed to be a replacement for the v4 pro model.

So it is price increment in the end, if new pro model comes with the new pro price.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#177
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will there be a point where you could expect it to become true, and what would that look like? Or do you think LLMs will never become conscious, and if so, why are you so sure?

It is easy to be sure because, despite their technically impressive outputs, the programming is child's play compared to biological programming. Recently it has become trendy to suggest that the human brain is "just electrical signals" and "just prediction". The first is perhaps true and I don't inherently rule out the idea of machine consciousness. The second would have gotten you laughed out of any serious discussi…

> Another way one could look at it is to consider what it would mean to have achieved programming consciousness. It would mean that we have reached the pinnacle of knowledge. That we have become God.

This is such a basic misunderstanding of how LLMs are "made" that I am debating if it is even worth writing this answer. However, I feel it is important to say that, NO, we did absolutely not "program consciousness". We made a framework from which it can semi-organically emerge. Accidentally, this and your other fallacies entirely diminish your arguments.

I'll say this: deeply serious and knowledgeable people work at Anthropic, OpenAI, and the other frontier labs. Much more knowledgeable than you or I are, and they have a lot more information to infer up-to-date knowledge from than you or I do. Trying to engage expert opinion with half-baked amateur philosophy founded in false assumptions is a fool's errand. Skepticism is listening to expert opinion and updating your own assumptions when presented with strong enough evidence. Everything else is baseless, and often harmful, cynicism.

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#178
I m not sure I would describe this as blanket win over GPT-5.6 Sol. In DeepSeek’s own table, V4.1 Flash is ahead on Terminal-Bench 2.1, DeepSWE, NL2Repo, and AutomationBench, but it is behind on GPQA Diamond, Terminal-Bench 3.0 and 4.0, and SEC-Bench Pro.

The architecture is probably part of the explanation for the lower cost and faster inference. DeepSeek says V4.1 Flash uses a new Causal Encoder–Decoder design, with 8B active parameters for input processing and 16B for decoding, along with much smaller KV caches.

But I hope it is just not benchmaxxed and genuinely good model

benchmarks: https://media2url.com/m/52a77a33347c48

Re: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same person but to me, the answer is that it does not matter, and that all these attempts at making it matter are pure marketing and emotional manipulation. It's not a living creature. It's an autoregressive pure function of token-sequence to token, which is capable of incredible things, but it's still just a function. It is not alive as it cannot die in any meaningful sense. It is less "alive" than the RNA m…

> Not the same person but to me, the answer is that it does not matter, and that all these attempts at making it matter are pure marketing and emotional manipulation. This is an opinion that has no basis in any meaningful conceptual framework other than I am human and I want to feel special about it . > It's not a living creature. You mean, it is not biological life. And sure, that is the default meaning of life . We…

I don't need to reevaluate anything, because I'm not interested in the debate.
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