211–220 of 226 posts
My problem with V4 flash is output limit. When I need to write or rewrite a larger file (~1000 lines of code) it will fail with message like output limit reached.
All DeepSeek models have 384k maximum output tokens:
Since a few months, I almost exclusively use the Chinese "flash" models for my needs. They are a joy and they cost pennies per answer. Great job.
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Thanks... I have been trying to figure out some things. Been doing my own evals. Flash 3.8 does burn a lot more tokens on high. Interesting how smart and not smart it is. For personal use almost impossible to justify the cost of 3.8 Flash cost.
Deepseek also burns a lot of tokens, its output on high is 2x of Gemini on medium. But it's dirt-cheap so it still can be 60-70% cheaper. From the large models Kimi K3 is definitely the one burning the smallest amount of tokens. Even if you pay for the fast version in Fireworks it's third of the price of Opus 5 for the same task. All this really needs evals, the token prices tell nothing.
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Crossing the street and Russian roulette both have non-deterministic risks of injury. And yet I would be bothered to find out that that on my way to work, I was playing Russian roulette by surprise.
Yes and if you decide to play not using a game rulebook but a website that call it "game A" you can't be shocked if "game A" switched from one to the other, even though the doc said opposite yesterday.
>In keeping with our commitment to user responsibility, following the official launch of V4.1 Flash and prior to the release of V4.1 Pro, all requests to the Pro model will be routed to V4.1 Flash and billed at Flash's price Please don't do this kind of thing. If a user has validated a workflow on V4 Pro, they might not want to suddenly start testing it in production on V4.1 Flash. Instead, keep V4 Pro around but dep…
Pick Auto (Deepseek v4 Flash Auto vs Deepseek v4.x Flash), and let the vendor decide. I think OpenRouter uses this method.
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That's a narrow take. Non-deterministic doesn't mean random; workflows can be reasonably validated and consistent to some known degree. I work for an education department that serves a chatbot for students, and model changes go through painstaking content safety reviews. I initially assumed it's just a bunch of bureaucratic paranoia. But every other model upgrade has a measurably different adherence to the existing s…
I work in the same field for one of my company, in europe, and if you're not self hosting sorry but your worries are not something I can accept because models are very much not reliable on that front, let alone when you let the host decide HOW to serve a model (ressources allocated, different version of the same model, etc ...). I'm not being a d**, just saying, the problem you have is something that I have faced EXA…
But even if we only asked for sonnet:latest, the last thing we'd expect is opus. Model names should be indicative of breaking changes, and change management doesn't just go in the bin because of non-deterministic tools.
>In keeping with our commitment to user responsibility, following the official launch of V4.1 Flash and prior to the release of V4.1 Pro, all requests to the Pro model will be routed to V4.1 Flash and billed at Flash's price Please don't do this kind of thing. If a user has validated a workflow on V4 Pro, they might not want to suddenly start testing it in production on V4.1 Flash. Instead, keep V4 Pro around but dep…
Usually I would very much agree with you, but those things are not deterministic so if that's an issue for you you're probably not making the right choices.
>In keeping with our commitment to user responsibility, following the official launch of V4.1 Flash and prior to the release of V4.1 Pro, all requests to the Pro model will be routed to V4.1 Flash and billed at Flash's price Please don't do this kind of thing. If a user has validated a workflow on V4 Pro, they might not want to suddenly start testing it in production on V4.1 Flash. Instead, keep V4 Pro around but dep…
Usually I would very much agree with you, but those things are not deterministic so if that's an issue for you you're probably not making the right choices.
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It's very easy to tell who is not running production applications using these models based on comments like this
Let me give you the benefit of the doubt, can you expand what you run in production?
Sounds nice! But, the web ui chat version of flash has very poor language following abilities in my experience: You may ask it something in English, and get a thinking chain in Chinese with an answer in Chinese, or an English thinking chain and an English answer. Using the retry button on the same question has a 50/50 chance of any of those results. Sometimes, asking something in English, but where information are mo…
It's not just web chat, V4 Flash 7/31 suffers from a lot of pathological behavior in coding harnesses as well, e.g. infinite loops, hallucinations, premature termination, and invalid tool calls.
I'm using headless Pi with my own UI and sandbox client, https://github.com/gterzian/uni03C0, as well as a bunch of Pi extensions for things like accessing Web standards and browser use via CDP for testing.
Switching to 4.1 today...
Edit: it seems they pushed the date at which they route the Pro calls to new Flash, so today I ended up paying regular Pro rates thinking I was using the new Flash; an example of how their offering is not quite as predictable as I would like it to be (the other is cache performance being unpredictable).