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Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

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Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#481

Post by nonethewiser »

vrosas wrote: post #143
marssaxman wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rental scooters/bikes cover last mile service very well in my experience. I use transit a great deal more than I would if I had to walk so much on either end of the trip.

Americans would rather die than give up their air conditioned bubbles on wheels. I've wondered why someone hasn't tried manufacturing an enclosed go kart with AC and enough trunk space for a few groceries.

>air conditioned bubbles on wheels.

You say it like its a bad thing.

I get it if you live in a dense metro. A car is not worth it in NYC, SF, etc. Other than that it's pretty abnormal for people not to want a car. It's usually some weird anxiety about driving. Not to mention - heaven forbid - you have a family.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#482

Post by nonethewiser »

toasty228 wrote: post #183
EA-3167 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess… you live somewhere warm and mostly dry? Probably on the younger side and don’t have any kids.

I'm in a 200 inhabitants village in eastern Europe, we have 3 bus stops in the village (so at most you're 10min away from a stop), the bus goes to the closest city every hour from 4:30 to 22:30 except on Sunday (every two hours from 6 to 21), from there you can take a train to every major city in the country, my neighbor is a 76 year old widow who goes to the city by bus regularly and who bikes around a lot. Half of…

>we bought the propaganda of freedom &Co and now we're all collectively stuck in this dumb system in which every household need to own two 2500kg hunks of steel and plastic to transport 70kg of meat 1% of the time and use public space the other 99%

Didn't you just say you can get around fine on the bus? Can't you just get a car if it suits you?

For me personally it's nice to have a car. It would certainly be tough if I had less resources and public transit would be more appreciated.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#483

Post by keeda »

madamelic wrote: post #355
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they still cannot drive cars. All this stuff can do is react very slowly, maybe, if it detects it, to a change in the environment. Self-driving cars will never be safer than human drivers. If you believe otherwise, show actual proof of some kind. Show some footage of self-driving cars doing anything other than blundering around like an inexperienced and impaired driver.

FSD avoiding a deer at night at highway speeds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmZBEK2Wk FSD driving in decently heavy rain (this is mine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKePEavEhv Both of the above aren't current consumer models and the Cybercabs run one major version above this. I've seen it avoid small rodents and deer that were hidden in foliage around a blind turn, it's super freaky with what it sees that h…

If I wasn't so lazy I'd find and post the one where my Tesla slowed down to a stop at a red light, lulling me into a sense of security, and then without warning lurched forward and broke the red light.

And this is not an isolated incident because that is one of the things Tesla is being investigated for: https://autos.yahoo.com/policy-and-environment/articles/tesl...

That is not even a perception issue (I've already had multiple very close calls because of that, and I think Elon was extremely negligent in pushing for vision-only;) This is a damn bug in the planning logic. That's Elon's "move fast and break people" philosophy shining through.

I would trust autonomous cars if they're Waymo. I would not trust Tesla.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#484

Post by ButlerianJihad »

embedding-shape wrote: post #137
ElijahLynn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit doesn't really go that far, when you talk about the last mile it's pretty limited. But I do like what you're going with that and maybe we could have public autonomous car infrastructure that we all share. And just one large global team working on awesome autonomous vehicles. That could be little pod type vehicles for one person and bigger ones as needed. Cuz the road system is pretty broad and amazing…

> the last mile it's pretty limited. Where is that last mile exactly? In many metropolitan areas, you typically have available a broad selection of trains, subways, trams and/or buses of different sizes that takes you last mile. Some places even have special buses, like the "Neighbourhood Bus" we have here ( https://www.barcelona.cat/mobilitat/sites/default/files/bcn-... ) for narrow and steep neighborhoods up on mou…

Since many commenters do not understand that "the last mile" is a term of art and not simply 5,280 feet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile_(transportation)#Usa...

Trains and subways, by definition, are not serving you in that "last mile". The "last mile" is where you disembark from the closest rapid/public transport, but you still need to travel to your destination.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#485

Post by wpm »

charcircuit wrote: post #466
rylando wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they enjoy sharing the road with you any more than you do with them. Maybe we could encourage our elected representatives to install more bike friendly infrastructure like bike trails and bikeways

[flagged]

I await your check for the purchase price of an automobile. I can also do Venmo if you prefer.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#486

Post by wpm »

socalgal2 wrote: post #357
throw0101a wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fewer than drivers, given that drivers tend to ignore the rules of the road more per a Danish government study: * https://politiken.dk/danmark/art7185605/Rygterne-om-cykliste... * Via: https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/... And perhaps more drivers should take up some cycling as it would make them better drivers (per a UK insurance company) * https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/ca…

Ridiculous and trivially provably false. (maybe Danish are different) Go to any intersection in SF or LA. Set up a camera. Count the number of cars and cyclists that break a traffic law. Cars will be 5-10% breaking the laws. Cyclists will be 95-97% breaking the laws.

Source: "I made it the fuck up"

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#487

Post by amanaplanacanal »

redox99 wrote: post #401
uv-depression wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private houses aren't killing tens of thousands a year.

You can argue all day whether cars are good or bad. That's not my point. My point is that pretending public transport is equivalent to cars if you have good enough infrastructure is silly. They are different experiences, each with their own tradeoffs. And those tradeoffs matter differently to different people.

I don't think anybody was suggesting getting rid of cars.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#488

Post by Tinned_Tuna »

One thing I'd like to see modeled is how many excess deaths they cause in, for example, London.

Driving in London is already very safe because the street design prevents people going very fast. American roads are, by comparison, unsafe. That probably means AVs in those countries had a lot of low-hanging fruit, so they could have a significant impact by staying within the speed limit, for example. Without such low hanging fruit, will there be so much benefit in London?

London has excellent and very safe public transit, far safer than even professional drivers. If AVs are cheap and convenient enough to pull people off transit, that might expose enough people to higher risk that makes them overall kill more people than if they'd stayed on the tube.

Likewise, more driving (even EVs) generates more asphalt and brake pad dust, which cause respiratory illnesses. If they cause a drop in transit ridership compared to no AVs, how does that affect the excess deaths in the city?

My gut says that, in London and other cities with safer streets, they're going to have more difficulty getting such headline-grabbing numbers. Combine that with the potential to take people off safe transit and put them on the road and the balance might slightly tip against them.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#489

Post by int0x29 »

robner wrote: post #360
socalgal2 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my circle, everyone who's tried Waymo never wants to use Uber/Lyft with a human driver again. And, many of them wish they could own one or at least use one for much longer drives (100s of miles). I would visit my mom (2hrs by car) more often if that 2hrs (each way) wasn't so stressful and exhausting and I could just be chauffeured by a self driving car while I browse the net, play a game, watch a movie, or talk to…

In the Netherlands were I live we use trains for this

This is great until your city was built by a 50s urban planner. Past a certain amount of sprawl building functioning public transit becomes nearly impossible. LA and Santa Clara County come to mind here. LA can sort of work if you are on the metro and don't need transfers.

I kinda wish some day some dark wizard curses those two areas to lose 75% of their roads and parking lots and make everything a lot closer.

Re: Growing proof that autonomous cars save lives

#490

Post by wpm »

SEJeff wrote: post #377
robner wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands were I live we use trains for this

The US is ~263x larger than the Netherlands landmass wise. It would require a loooot more trains than we have or you have.

Yeah thats a useful factor for all those "visiting mom in Portland" trips from Washington DC that a train is obviously meant to replace, not any of those "100 mi or less visits to mom" that de facto MUST be taken in a car regardless of the population density of the surrounding 100mi radius.

Also we should ignore the fact that the US already had a national rail network and STILL DOES for freight and had frequent regional rail service to even incredibly small podunk nowhere towns for decades. It's clearly impossible! We're too big! IT CAN'T BE DONE!

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