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DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 215 posts

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#41
post #15

Since a few months, I almost exclusively use the Chinese "flash" models for my needs. They are a joy and they cost pennies per answer. Great job.

I recently had to config my harness to watch for cybersecurity flags from astra and funnel requests to flash when they occur because Astra gets queezy when you talk to it about UDP packets in games.

Works fantastic. Glad there is a more 'uncensored' thing to fall back to when the frontier folk are too sensitive.

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#42
post #20

Sounds nice! But, the web ui chat version of flash has very poor language following abilities in my experience: You may ask it something in English, and get a thinking chain in Chinese with an answer in Chinese, or an English thinking chain and an English answer. Using the retry button on the same question has a 50/50 chance of any of those results. Sometimes, asking something in English, but where information are mo…

I've occasionally got chinese characters in anthropic/openai's responses too, locally on codex/claude. Hasn't happened in a while, last time was when I was testing fable 5 in june.

I don’t know what model codex uses for session summarization (I use Pro subscription, no third party models), but I get Chinese summaries from time to time, when the only Chinese that could have appeared in the session would be an i18n strings file that it may or may not have loaded. Very puzzling. Last happened yesterday.

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#43
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

v4 flash has been working quite well for the majority of my personal projects, with occasional v4 pro or Kimi 3 for the most complicated tasks or to check the overall project progress (when vibe coding).

I must be doing something wrong. I gave v4 pro a try a couple of days ago, gave it a simple prompt like "clean up functions x and y in file z" and it would always start off promising, just to quickly get sidetracked, start hallucinating problems in the code, and just get stuck for hours until I interrupt it: — hmm — 0x2D696370 — little-endian bytes: 70 63 69 2D = 'p','c','i','-' — hmm — WAIT — WAIT — !!!!! — *WAIT —…

I used flash with pi and it worked pretty well.

It built this whole IaC plugin from scratch: https://github.com/fllstck/nebius-alchemy

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#45
I've been using deepseek-v4-flash as a "worker" model with Claude Code to implement a tool using Rust/Iroh for my personal use, and it works fairly nicely when I use Opus as the planner/reviewer model. It seems to follow the plan generated by Opus, albeit with a few misses here and there that it cleans up later after being reviewed by Opus.

Fairly excited for the v4.1 launch. Input cache hit prices have been halved, which looks nice.

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#46
post #20

Sounds nice! But, the web ui chat version of flash has very poor language following abilities in my experience: You may ask it something in English, and get a thinking chain in Chinese with an answer in Chinese, or an English thinking chain and an English answer. Using the retry button on the same question has a 50/50 chance of any of those results. Sometimes, asking something in English, but where information are mo…

Yep, the same issue. I even defined a dictionary shortcut on my phone to expand aie to "Answer in English!", but every so often it takes 5 times to force it to switch to English.

Interesting though, when I ask questions in German or my native language, I rarely get Chinese answers. Looks like English is most affected.

API never answers in Chinese.

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#48
It's interesting that this is the third lab to find problems with larger models. Earlier last year oAI was rumoured to have failed their large pretrain. Now google has problems with their pro series, and ds just announced the same. There are some rumours on chinese forums talking about problems with the pretraining phase, so this is not mid/post training related.

I wonder if this comes from using the bad architecture scaled up (and it hits some limits) or if this is a data problem (undertrained? bad data? bad pre-processing using smaller models?)...

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#49
> all requests to the Pro model will be routed to V4.1 Flash and billed at Flash's price

If I'd carefully tested and optimized prompts against Pro I wouldn't be keen on this particular news. I feel like API model providers should lean towards not swapping out models on their paying customers, no matter how much "better" the new model is meant to be.

Re: DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro

#50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mental bias always kept me away from Chinese models. Because i know that china is a surveillance state and all the things we know about CCP. But after what we learned about OpenAI and how they most likely used user data to basically cheat in an open competition i think it does not matter which AI provider you use all of them will own your data and all of them can spy on you. So I am willing to switch to Chinese mo…

The new meta model is fast and very cheap as well, and when used through OpenCode you get quite a lot of free tokens. But meta is also THE surveillance company, so probably also not a good choice in your case.

If you work on open source projects, I don't care about surveilance. It's right there on Github with full history anyways.
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