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My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

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Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#111

Post by yhcj »

tpxl wrote: post #82
sillyfluke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. is a bit contradictory or at the least a "devils in the details" wishful fantasy which hasn't been showcased convincingly in the wild yet (by "the wild", I mean software eng shops and corps). It's assumed the devs who have taste were able to implement their taste fine pre-AI, sure, but the whole gotcha in 1. is that the ones with good taste currently are not confident in implementing their good taste while simulta…

I disagree. There is a lot of boilerplate to write and mundane things to check, which AI can speed up a lot. I'm not talking about 'software engineering' here, but about 'programming', which consists of a lot of write DTO->write rest interface->write interface->write simple select query->map response. The good taste here comes from the architectural design and the UI design. The amount of 'software engineers' who cou…

also people have no clue how to know what is good or bad.

It's like if I asked an LLM to produce a contract for a a new hire

(my friend the one I mentioned, did that BTW LOL)

Yeah, okay, it might be good, probably very good, in fact might be GREAT.

But I just have no clue

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#112

Post by yhcj »

tpxl wrote: post #30
yhcj wrote: post #2

OP and long time lurker here, I'm desperate and looking for honest-to-god advice on what to do. I am one of those neurodivergent people who loves programming because it gives me the right stimulation. I also enjoy drawing, gardening, and exercise. I don't own a car because I love walking, and such. So I'm wondering if it's time to call it quits with programming (for a living). Luckily I have some savings and I have o…

The differentiator right now is taste. Most people have none (like the business partner in the OP), and some people have plenty (like you seem to have). These two sets of people will produce wildly different results with the same tools. Two things you can do regarding programming here. 1. Be a consultant for a high wage, use AI, produce good results quickly - little to negative intellectual joy here. You still have t…

RE:

1. I did consulting for a bit, $500/hr haha I was so reluctant to do it. I do admit that SV was just pouring way too much money back then. The good old days. I don't live in the US, and remote opportunities have been vanishing quite quickly. In the US I would have no doubt I'd get crazy good offers, I have lots of people who respect me there. My friend and I even got offered high positions at Youtube way back when.

2. I quit 3 years ago and have done a lot of artisanal code. Lots of fun. But next year I'll need to figure out stuff, hence why I accepted this small contract (ends next month) and thinking if it's time to move on.

BTW I have a family to feed and my son eats like a husky even though he's only 45 pounds, so there's that. My daughter is a big fan of Argentinean shrimp and caviar. You get the point.

Hitting you an email

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#113

Post by bitwize »

yhcj wrote: post #103
bitwize wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I booted my MiSTer into TI-99/4A mode a week or so ago and started writing little programs in TI BASIC. TI BASIC sucked. It was slow, due to being written in a form of bytecode which had to be interpreted (and it would in turn interpret your program). And you couldn't do sprites, not without getting the Extended BASIC cart. But HOLY SHIT THE DOPAMINE RUSH. Just crafting things and making them appear on the screen wit…

EXACTLY! The dopamine we get from doing stuff with mostly our own hands is unbelievable. But social media, junk food, and adult content should have taught us that cheap dopamine is addictive and dangerous. Most of us will learn the hard way (or never learn)

The economics of it are such that writing code is, for humans, a handicraft to be indulged in out of idle curiosity. When it comes to actually useful software, for personal or industrial use, that is better off produced by machine; it's simply a waste of human time and energy to write it by hand.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#114

Post by Keyframe »

yhcj wrote: post #96
Keyframe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Issue at hand is if you're working in an environment that enables such people and even encourages that behaviour. Suddenly, their voice is the same where it was never even a whisper before, and you can't do anything about it. It is extremely demotivating and I would actually propose a more radical approach to it - either embrace the shit in full and commit to it as well or really…

I actually quit bigger companies and SV contracts because the amount of hype was way overblown. Nothing could not be AI, really. Think about how crazy it is that Jensen Huang is saying "AGI is here", seriously. I first thought malice, now I think it's just plain religious Zeal. We're not a company, it's just me and my pal. I keep 50% of the product and profits and he pays me to do that (because I have way more expert…

curious question where you work, the AI craze is not happening?

of course it is. There's no escape IMO unless, as you've said, go solo or with a small team. I just don't know of any company of a notable size that's not into it full force. It's both disgusting and amazing to look at really. Give it a few years and if it fizzles out I'm curious what will happen. If it turns great, I'm even more curious what will happen. Weird times.

Just "yesterday" we were all careful what and how we do stuff, you have now people who barely understand things slopping together OS and people use it blindly (Omarchy), and then shocked pikachu faces when giant gaping holes are noticed in it.. and people still do not care. Amazing trainwreck of a timeline, hah.

I'm seriously considering pivoting myself to security.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#115

Post by 72deluxe »

grebc wrote: post #28
yhcj wrote: post #2

OP and long time lurker here, I'm desperate and looking for honest-to-god advice on what to do. I am one of those neurodivergent people who loves programming because it gives me the right stimulation. I also enjoy drawing, gardening, and exercise. I don't own a car because I love walking, and such. So I'm wondering if it's time to call it quits with programming (for a living). Luckily I have some savings and I have o…

I’ve been on a sabbatical for 99% of this year, small pockets of time spent doing some maintenance for clients I love. I bought a seriously derelict property in country Australia and am having a good time slowly fixing it up. I’ll get back to programming next year, hopefully the blow-ins have moved on to the next hype cycle by that time.

Did you have a lot of savings or something for this? I suppose the closest the rest of us can do is see if we can work part time and make use of longer weekends to go on exploratory trips, or paid holiday (if you work for a company) to go on exploratory trips, see the world, that sort of thing.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#116

Post by ckvibubueu »

p2detar wrote: post #45
ckvibubueu wrote: post #33

5k is rookie numbers. My PM sent me an 80k line PR and told me to yolo it into production last week.

Man, I would straight up tell them I will use AI to review that crap and so be it. In fact this is what I tell to colleagues if they send my non-tested vibe-coded stuff or vibe-generated documentation. Everyone can generate shit today, but I believe testing, reviewing, writing docs, etc. must still go through humans.

Code review? We have bots for that.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#117

Post by sillyfluke »

tpxl wrote: post #82
sillyfluke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. is a bit contradictory or at the least a "devils in the details" wishful fantasy which hasn't been showcased convincingly in the wild yet (by "the wild", I mean software eng shops and corps). It's assumed the devs who have taste were able to implement their taste fine pre-AI, sure, but the whole gotcha in 1. is that the ones with good taste currently are not confident in implementing their good taste while simulta…

I disagree. There is a lot of boilerplate to write and mundane things to check, which AI can speed up a lot. I'm not talking about 'software engineering' here, but about 'programming', which consists of a lot of write DTO->write rest interface->write interface->write simple select query->map response. The good taste here comes from the architectural design and the UI design. The amount of 'software engineers' who cou…

Since the discussion was related to the job security of a programmer with good taste, I'm trying to read your comment from that perspective.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are claiming that an AI will not design a table to be readable unless a programmer with good taste is prompting it. Did I understand you correctly?

If so, then yes we are going to arrive at different conclusions, because my claim is that the table made by the programmer with no taste will be acceptable to the client, hence good taste won't save the other programmer because good taste will require more guiding and interference by the programmer. And then the client will just go with the no taste implementation.

If the programmer with good taste truly does not lose any time implementing their solution when compared to the other programmer, as you claim, then yes the client will go with good taste since all else are equal.

I just find those assumptions hard to believe at this stage.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#118

Post by aprilthird2021 »

yhcj wrote: post #100
XenophileJKO wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm am certainly an "ai believer" and have been since I saw the tragectory we were on. It was pretty simple to project the compounding effects and headroom that we had. I go back and forth on this all the time. There probably won't be much demand for "un-fuckers". Up until recently I thought knowing what to build for a given context would give you quite a bit of runway. I still think knowing what you should build wil…

I used to think there'd be space for unfuckers. Now I'm doubftul. Yeah I could do management and all that crap but I was Eng Manager for 5 months and hated it. Some of us are like huskies, we need to run on the Siberian Permafrost in order to thrive, else we get depressed. That's me.

You're misunderstanding. There is space for people who aren't so stupid that their prompts are stupid and their output is stupid and they sling and spam their stupid shit all over your system and attempt to get it committed and screw everything up.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#119

Post by JodieBenitez »

yhcj wrote: post #105
JodieBenitez wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think AI is not really the subject. You probably chose a bad partner. As for quitting, since you mentioned gardening: "C’est une folie de haïr toutes les roses parce qu’une épine vous a piqué."

One thorn? I already lived under a cave but did you see the amount of money and hype pushed into AI? Just look at YC, 90% AI, just like it was crypto back then. Jensen Huang saying we have AGI. One thorn I can handle. A field full of slugs and nettles with billions of dollars to burn I'm not so sure

I was refering to your partner, but ok.

Re: My business partner sent a 5K vibe-coded PR that he didn't even test

#120

Post by grebc »

72deluxe wrote: post #115
grebc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been on a sabbatical for 99% of this year, small pockets of time spent doing some maintenance for clients I love. I bought a seriously derelict property in country Australia and am having a good time slowly fixing it up. I’ll get back to programming next year, hopefully the blow-ins have moved on to the next hype cycle by that time.

Did you have a lot of savings or something for this? I suppose the closest the rest of us can do is see if we can work part time and make use of longer weekends to go on exploratory trips, or paid holiday (if you work for a company) to go on exploratory trips, see the world, that sort of thing.

Saved, bought assets, saved & paid off debt, sold assets.

My home town had super undervalued real estate for roughly a decade prior to 2023/4.

I bought another stinker of a property nobody wanted.

I’d save and look for under valued property, my understanding is the US has ridiculous amounts of it provided you’re happy to live in small places.

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