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'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

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Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#41

Post by mywittyname »

Krutonium wrote: post #34
capnjazz wrote: post #15

Hmmm, I feel like it would also be problematic if Google and Apple acted as unelected geographic authorities and deciding which names are politically legitimate

Honestly I'd be okay with it if Google and Apple decided that the current administrations actions are not legitimate, as long as they can properly justify it. Which honestly wouldn't be that hard.

It's not their place to adjudicate the actions of the current administration. That's the job of the courts and Congress. That both are complacent is the actual issue at hand.

This should be handled exactly the same way it would be if the countries involved were China and India. Which is probably, people in China see the Chinese view, people in India see the Indian view, and everyone sees it as contested.

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#42

Post by sryryrdhd »

iAMkenough wrote: post #25
sokoloff wrote: post #19

The executive orders are ridiculous/childish/whatever-you-call-this. That aside, if they have any legal effect, I’d expect a map company to call a feature by its legal name. Should a rendering of the land bordering the Southwest corner of the Black Sea show the city of Istanbul? Or must it remain depicted as Constantinople? Or perhaps even Byzantium?

Technically the border goes through the middle of the lake, and each side has their own legal name. Is it legally one lake with two names, or two lakes with one name? What should customers in neither country see displayed? What if the federal government renames New Mexico to New America, but the state government refuses?

[dead]

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#43

Post by gos9 »

Krutonium wrote: post #34
capnjazz wrote: post #15

Hmmm, I feel like it would also be problematic if Google and Apple acted as unelected geographic authorities and deciding which names are politically legitimate

Honestly I'd be okay with it if Google and Apple decided that the current administrations actions are not legitimate, as long as they can properly justify it. Which honestly wouldn't be that hard.

Good thing your opinion doesn’t matter lol

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#44

Post by mywittyname »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #21
Varelion wrote: post #14

STOP. RELYING. ON. THE. UNITED. STATES. AND. ITS. ECONOMIC. SYSTEM. Build and trade amongst yourselves instead of relying on this house of cards. Buy European. Buy Canadian.

As an American, I wonder if Trump succeeds in giving away so much of America's economic and military power to other countries, will it make America a less interesting target for corrupting interests? Maybe the billionaires and foreign governments will invest less money in corrupting our system if it's not the global hegemon?

The USA had the power to prevent corruption through a variety of mechanisms (banking, trade, military, legal). With that capacity diminished, corruption is going to flourish everywhere.

Which is the point: once the first domino falls, the rest will naturally follow suit. The playbook has been tested on the USA, and any guards against it have been eliminated. They are slowly going to work their way across the global, running the same playbook. And where they don't run it, someone else will.

Granted, a weak USA means that they also have no protections should another country attempt to bring them to justice or "nationalize" their property. But I'm sure most of them have a contingency plan for that scenario.

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#45

Post by happytoexplain »

sokoloff wrote: post #19

The executive orders are ridiculous/childish/whatever-you-call-this. That aside, if they have any legal effect, I’d expect a map company to call a feature by its legal name. Should a rendering of the land bordering the Southwest corner of the Black Sea show the city of Istanbul? Or must it remain depicted as Constantinople? Or perhaps even Byzantium?

There's a line. It's pointless to pretend "legality === nobody is allowed to disrespect you for complying".

Regardless of which side of the line you land on, this is a fundamental truth. "They're just using its legal name" is a dishonest use of the word "just".

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#47

Post by pedalpete »

As a Canadian, I agree this is ridiculous.

Having worked in the mapping sector for a bit, it makes sense.

Google/Apple are not deciding what the lake is called. They are pulling data from the GNIS.

This way people in a region will see what their government decides is the correct version for their people.

Let's take this out of the heated debate.

In the most of the world and Iran (strangely we agree on this), we recognize a body of water known as the Persian Gulf. For the Arab League states, they call this the Arabian Gulf.

Is that Google being evil? Should Google decide what this is called? Or just leave it to the region to decide themselves.

What about the border of Kashmir? How should they handle that?

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#48

Post by happytoexplain »

GMoromisato wrote: post #22

I personally would rather have a democratically-elected government--no matter how awful--pick names rather than have corporations pick names. Also, I was curious, so I looked it up: Congress passed a law (Public Law 80-242) in 1947 that allowed the executive branch to establish a single set of geographic names. Conservatives famously protested when the Obama administration renamed Mt. McKinley to Denali. I have no do…

"Picking" is not the same as "declining to acknowledge a change to". You can make your argument perfectly well without pretending otherwise.

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#49

Post by happytoexplain »

pedalpete wrote: post #47

As a Canadian, I agree this is ridiculous. Having worked in the mapping sector for a bit, it makes sense. Google/Apple are not deciding what the lake is called. They are pulling data from the GNIS. This way people in a region will see what their government decides is the correct version for their people. Let's take this out of the heated debate. In the most of the world and Iran (strangely we agree on this), we recog…

>Let's take this out of the heated debate.

Why? It's an emotional subject. We can debate it heatedly without becoming irrational.

>In the most of the world and Iran (strangely we agree on this), we recognize a body of water known as the Persian Gulf. For the Arab League states, they call this the Arabian Gulf. Is that Google being evil?

I have no idea. I don't have enough cultural context to make an informed decision.

On the matter of Trump's renamings, Google does have that context.

We do not need to pretend that everything is decidable by simple one-line equations. We are all humans.

In the context of what is "acceptable" for human opinions: It is OK for Google to decide to concede to the president's renamings based on their existing umbrella policy. It is also OK for people to consider Google immoral for doing so.

Both things are within that range. We need to stop pretending otherwise with these weak "technically..." arguments and over-reliance on analogies that we tend toward as engineers.

Re: 'Lake America' makes one thing clear: We can't trust U.S. tech companies

#50

Post by mywittyname »

ModernMech wrote: post #39
ralfd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Public Law 80-242 applies strictly to terrestrial geography. Outer space and celestial bodies fall outside the jurisdiction of the Department of the Interior.

lol as if this administration is concerned about or following laws.

administration: "Look! More laws we can break!"
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