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Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

cims.nyu.edu

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Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#331

Post by treyjshaffer »

porridgeraisin wrote: post #168
goldenarm wrote: post #96

I recommend Terrence Tao's commentary on such a proof : https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117219101339291693 Key quote : "Solving the problem by purely AI-powered methods [would be a] net negative for the progress of mathematics."

The for-case for this type of method is that this is economies of scale for mathematics. We are basically mass manufacturing math. Just like you have just 100 designers for a product selling millions of units, you will now need 100 mathematicians to make millions of advancement. Yes you have factory workers, but if we are being realistic they have negative leverage in the world and the analogue of that is not somethi…

This isn't a useful analogy. His point is that the millenium problems should be treated as interesting goals where the journey is the purpose and where the end doesn't matter so much. We don't care about having an incomprehensible solution to the NS so much as having an elegant solution after many of subfields of math are built up in order to obtain that elegant solution.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#333

Post by burkaman »

frabcus wrote: post #254
traes wrote: post #59

The accused Sebastian Bubeck has denied the allegations on Twitter[0], and various other OpenAI employees[1,2] seem to be mocking another Anthropic employee voicing support for Levent[3]? Things are getting messy. [0] https://xcancel.com/SebastienBubeck/status/20972141224714323... [1] https://xcancel.com/polynoamial/status/2097215233119211902 [2] https://xcancel.com/danintheory/status/2097214838003138603 [3] https://…

Dan and Noam both posted exactly the same line "Seb is a really sweet guy with great intentions..." From which I assume OpenAI PR wrote it for them. Which isn't surprising, but means it isn't worth taking seriously as them saying anything. It's official OpenAI PR.

No, they use that wording because they are mocking this tweet from an Anthropic employee: https://xcancel.com/_sholtodouglas/status/209721833169057800....

I don't know why.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#334

Post by Davidzheng »

lukewarm707 wrote: post #328
Davidzheng wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Tristan doesn't even want to be credited for the millennium prize--does he? He wanted to be the first to solve it and got scooped (which ig is not a great look for OAI ethically but also not forbidden). And the only reading for her of asking to remove levent must be in light of this offer (to credit him for millennium prize) right? It's not like they can ask him to remove levent from the main papers without this…

my reading was that openai did not deny plagiarising the approach from their prompts. openai then tried to effectively bribe buckmaster with a shared citation, whilst dropping his co-author who works for anthropic. after buckmaster refused, openai tried to threaten him.

Oai denies looking at prompts but doesn't deny training on them.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#335

Post by 20k »

wrasee wrote: post #33
20k wrote: post #21

>I asked whether the model had been trained on, or had access to, our sessions in Codex, into which we had been putting all our drafts for the whole of this project. I was told the model did not look up user data. I asked again, about training, and I did not get an answer. If you think these companies are not training on your prompts you are incredibly naive. These models were built by stealing and pirating literally…

It's equally naive to believe FUD spread on the internet, without evidence. But I would love to see more informed insight/discussion on this.

I mean, its the researchers themselves talking about this

https://mastodon.social/@tristanbuckmaster/11723647135247030...

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#336

Post by hkmaxpro »

sigbottle wrote: post #305
n2d4 wrote: post #83

Drama/accusation summary: - Aug 15th: Tristan Buckmaster & Levent Alpöge make progress on a few important math problems, "finite-time blowup with smooth forcing for incompressible porous media, for Boussinesq, and for 3d incompressible Euler." - they do NOT have a proof for the $1,000,000 Millenium Prize problem. BUT, they do claim to have a proof for a similar (non-Millenium) Navier Stokes problem that could help le…

It's specifically the last two bullet poitns - Tristan is suspicious of the timing, as only few others were trying this approach. OpenAI says the model didn't access his user data directly, but leaves unanswered whether Tristan's chat conversations were part of the training. - OpenAI says they would partially credit Tristan for the $1,000,000 discovery (even though Tristan did not solve the $1,000,000 problem) — but…

Both Sam Altman and Sebastien Bubeck admitted they only want Buckmaster to be the lead author on a rewrite of the OpenAI proof.

https://x.com/sama/status/2097385167002415140

https://x.com/SebastienBubeck/status/2097379411691516310

A wake up call for using OpenAI models. If you discover something with their model and you work for a competitor, they “felt it would be inappropriate” for you “to author OpenAI’s work”.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#337

Post by lukewarm707 »

Davidzheng wrote: post #334
lukewarm707 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my reading was that openai did not deny plagiarising the approach from their prompts. openai then tried to effectively bribe buckmaster with a shared citation, whilst dropping his co-author who works for anthropic. after buckmaster refused, openai tried to threaten him.

Oai denies looking at prompts but doesn't deny training on them.

if they do not deny training on them, they can't deny plagiarism.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#338

Post by mti »

bawolff wrote: post #297
n2d4 wrote: post #83

Drama/accusation summary: - Aug 15th: Tristan Buckmaster & Levent Alpöge make progress on a few important math problems, "finite-time blowup with smooth forcing for incompressible porous media, for Boussinesq, and for 3d incompressible Euler." - they do NOT have a proof for the $1,000,000 Millenium Prize problem. BUT, they do claim to have a proof for a similar (non-Millenium) Navier Stokes problem that could help le…

> OpenAI says they would partially credit Tristan for the $1,000,000 discovery (even though Tristan did not solve the $1,000,000 problem) — but only if they remove Levent as an author, as he works for Anthropic well that sounds like an asshole move.

In a serious discipline like mathematics, this isn't just an asshole move, but a career-ending level of academic misconduct.

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#339

Post by magicalist »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #329
colinhb wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very unlikely that Tristan is making up these quotes, or pulling them out of context: > I said that if OpenAI released its result in the way proposed I would go public with what happened. The reply was, “Why would you ruin your career?” I replied that I am an academic, and asked why he thought going public would ruin my career. The reply was, “If you don’t want me to be nice, then I don’t have to be nice…

>I said that if OpenAI released its result in the way proposed I would go public with what happened. The reply was, “Why would you ruin your career?” I replied that I am an academic, and asked why he thought going public would ruin my career. The reply was, “If you don’t want me to be nice, then I don’t have to be nice.” If this is true he should release the actual emails. This is a very serious accusation and he sho…

> If this is true he should release the actual emails

these were statements while on a call, and at least the career comment Bubeck has admitted to while doing damage control ("I deeply apologize for this extremely poor choice of words, it is the opposite of what I was trying to convey. (I should say that I retracted them on the spot by the way.)"[1]).

[1] https://xcancel.com/SebastienBubeck/status/20973794116915163...

Re: Navier-Stokes – Tristan Buckmaster [pdf]

#340

Post by qlte »

vatsachak wrote: post #302
dumberquestions wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find it to be extremely unlikely?

Winning a millennium prize is not worth the fallout of "we will steal your IP"

They train on chat logs unless opted out. This really isn't a conspiratorial claim requiring humans to decide to steal IP if true.

His prior work predating OpenAI's interest in the problem was ingested over the last year as he made progress and used for training.

Then, with a prompting nudge from OpenAI's team who acknowledged hearing about the direction "Anthropic" (his co-collaborator) had been pursuing, they're able to point their giant amount of compute towards a known promising path to a proof and crossing the finish line first.

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