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PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

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Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#41

Post by rayiner »

bsoqk wrote: post #38
blululu wrote: post #35

Framing this as a pattern across the entire industrial world is a bit misleading. Looking through the data at Math Scores since 2015 shows big country level split: Japan: -3 S Korea: -1 Singapore: +1 Taiwan: +9 --- Germany: -45 France: -38 Sweden: -33 US: -10 This is an issue with the western industrialized world. Which ought to make the analysis simple since we can look at what those countries have done differently…

[flagged]

Yeah, it's useless to look at time-series changes in this data without accounting for the fact that, e.g., 29% of students in Germany now have a migration background. A huge chunk of German students are growing up with parents who don't speak German at home, of course that's going to cause test scores to decline.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#42

Post by amadeoeoeo »

blululu wrote: post #35

Framing this as a pattern across the entire industrial world is a bit misleading. Looking through the data at Math Scores since 2015 shows big country level split: Japan: -3 S Korea: -1 Singapore: +1 Taiwan: +9 --- Germany: -45 France: -38 Sweden: -33 US: -10 This is an issue with the western industrialized world. Which ought to make the analysis simple since we can look at what those countries have done differently…

I see news and forums claiming the problem is screens/smartphones and social media.

Given the big gap between the east and the west... does anybody know if these are somehow less used/abused in asian countries?

Any other reason why this gap might happen?

Thanks

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#44

Post by meindnoch »

GPerson wrote: post #12
a2ff6eeb0 wrote: post #3

Makes sense. The kids can see that education isn't really going to be a sellable skill when AI ends up coming into full force. AI already writes most of the articles I see posted here, is doing math at the level of the best mathematicians, and is writing a ton of the code out there. Given another decade to develop, the kids will be hitting the workforce with very stiff competition. It's not a shock they're putting th…

I hope people recognize this account doom posts what amounts to misanthropic propaganda at a very high rate. There’s never any question how the comment is going to be framed. It’s always, “give up little humans, your robot overlords are here.”

Yep, I've noticed that myself. It's getting pretty boring.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#46

Post by goalieca »

zulban wrote: post #37
kmitz wrote: post #27

PISA data show that students who use AI for specific schoolwork tasks, such as summarising texts, drafting or conducting research, attain lower scores in science than students who do not use AI. See graphs on PISA 2025 homepage : https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/pisa-2025-results-volum... So much for all the EdTech startups that want you to use their AI teachers. Seriously, this should be a major signal to keep s…

Sloppy conclusion about edtech startups. If everyone is hiring a "tutor" to just do their homework for them, that doesn't mean that all tutors are bad.

There’s many books and established schools of thought about computers being terrible for learning even before the latest wave AI edtech nonsense.

Simply put, there’s nothing better than old school pen to paper.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#47

Post by Aurornis »

kmitz wrote: post #27

PISA data show that students who use AI for specific schoolwork tasks, such as summarising texts, drafting or conducting research, attain lower scores in science than students who do not use AI. See graphs on PISA 2025 homepage : https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/pisa-2025-results-volum... So much for all the EdTech startups that want you to use their AI teachers. Seriously, this should be a major signal to keep s…

> So much for all the EdTech startups that want you to use their AI teachers.

The AI they’re talking about is not EdTech AI-based teaching tools. It’s students who use ChatGPT to handle work for them so they can ignore any teaching parts.

Apples and oranges. Using this study to draw conclusions about AI EdTech would be a mistake

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#48

Post by loloquwowndueo »

jahller wrote: post #20
AdamN wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been said before we've been cleaning up garbage code for generations and that doesn't look even close to changing anytime soon.

100%, does it matter if I cleanup the mess of another dev or of an AI? I don't think so.

Can other devs spew out crap at the same speed at AI? Cleaning up fifteen 10kloc pull requests per day? Yeah didn’t think so.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#49

Post by loloquwowndueo »

lordnacho wrote: post #14
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno man, the articles ai writes are empty cardboard crap, and the code it produces is hot garbage. “Cleaner upper of AI messes” might be a good future skill to have.

I don't think you can dismiss the output quality so easily. Give yourself a few hours to write out some code in the old way. Can you really tell me that you could not have done a better job with AI in the same time? Eg, implement chess or poker games. Or write a component like a Swiss table. It's not obvious to me that AI produces bad work at all.

That’s the thing - many times it’s not obvious. But go check that chunk of code that, sure, works, and you’ll find subtleties that just don’t look right. But hey - you do you if that’s the kind of quality you’re happy with.

Re: PISA 2025 Students' reading and mathematics performance declined across the OECD

#50

Post by jimaway123 »

rayiner wrote: post #41
bsoqk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah, it's useless to look at time-series changes in this data without accounting for the fact that, e.g., 29% of students in Germany now have a migration background. A huge chunk of German students are growing up with parents who don't speak German at home, of course that's going to cause test scores to decline.

[flagged]
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